Addressing "surgery is cope" beliefs regarding bimax and rim implants.

[Mastermind]

Many users in this forum resort to the fatalist thinking that surgery and all hardmaxxing procedures are cope because "no startling improvements have been registered", "recoveries are too harsh" or they simply have "ruined the patient's facial appearance".

In this serious thread, I would like to take the stance of bimax (w/ CCW, genioplasty, downgraft, etc.) and orbital rim implants, two surgeries that - if done correctly - can truly change lives.

One bad, gaslighting example of a useless bimax result I would like to highlight is this person's, which has been described by some of you members as "incredible" but not particularly lifesaving. Despite being an appreciable result, this is not what an aesthetic-oriented double jaw surgery should typically realize.

Notice how the popular "CCW rotation" targetting the upper jaw (lower maxilla) is insignificant if not completely absent.
The performed BSSO (lower jaw) advancement in this picture resolved the patient's malocclusion and mandible recession, but did not affect his scarce forward growth in the slightest. The face still looks flat and recessed.

His projection, midface ratio and many other forward growth related features could have been improved by a significantly larger CCW rotation and maxillary advancement, maybe compensated by downgrafting or a genioplasty - yet this did not happen because this surgery, differently from what you may think, did not target aesthetics but rather the sole health factors spawned by the recession.

This, instead, is one of Dr. Sailer's (hardcore blackpilled surgeon) results. Notice the added forward growth: pronounced jaw, slightly upturned nose, upper lip is no longer flat, better chin projection, maxilla does not appear recessed anymore. All of this has been possible because the surgery was aimed towards pure aesthetic improvements rather than health concerns.

Another procedure which is very commonly ostracized by PSL members is the appliance of orbital rim implants and the whole group of midface implants as a whole, described to look bad and plastic-like.

Again, this stigma originates from the fact that most surgery patients - which are bluepilled - are unaware of the underlying workings of the maxilla and decide to "boost" their cheekbones and under eye area forward without proper support being available, alas the lower maxilla (and jaw) are still recessed and cannot afford to substain the added material. This emerges into an excessive ogee curve, ultimately resulting in the unnatural surgery freak look.

This is the main reason why it is often suggested to perform double jaw first then later proceed to the application of midface implants. People who refuse to comply to this standard are doomed to botch their appearance.

 

[zaynbrah]

All of this has been possible because the surgery was aimed towards pure aesthetic improvements rather than health concerns.

Is that a good thing lol ?
For me healthmaxxing > looksmaxing

 

[RAITEIII]

Well in all honestly you cant promise a miracle, or that the result will be unaesthethic, or either insubstantial.

There are cases and cases and surgery is not cope as long as you're extremely knowledgeable and know how it will impact your face.

 

[Mastermind]

Is that a good thing lol ?
For me healthmaxxing > looksmaxing

Pure aesthetic improvements may require larger efforts than simple health resolutions, especially when targetting forward growth.

 

[RAITEIII]

Is that a good thing lol ?
For me healthmaxxing > looksmaxing

Looksmaxxing > healthmaxxing

His point was that the surgery didnt go for better results because they wanted basic health improvement rather than aesthetic.

 

[Mastermind]

Well in all honestly you cant promise a miracle, or that the result will be unaesthethic, or either insubstantial.

There are cases and cases and surgery is not cope as long as you're extremely knowledgeable and know how it will impact your face.

This is why I advocate for bimax then implants awareness, too many people screwing their face up being unaware of how the maxilla works.

 

[oatmeal]

yes paired with both (or if ur a richcel modified lf3, or particularly fucked monobloc) will be the answer to targeting these areas.

however personally I am debating with myself whether to do trimax w/ccw (my recession is mild so I would only have a short advancement) + infraorbital rim implants or not

it is a large investment and since its not that bad it probably won't be as much of a difference as those pics u provided up there. ill probably still do it though...

 

[Deleted member 7776]

yes paired with both (or if ur a richcel modified lf3, or particularly fucked monobloc) will be the answer to targeting these areas.

however personally I am debating with myself whether to do trimax w/ccw (my recession is mild so I would only have a short advancement) + infraorbital rim implants or not

it is a large investment and since its not that bad it probably won't be as much of a difference as those pics u provided up there. ill probably still do it though...

Can you tell me what CCW rotation does?

 

[nastynas]

water

 

[LILMAXILLA]

Midface implants mogged by MLF3

 

[oatmeal]

Can you tell me what CCW rotation does?

rotates your mandible., and thus your occlusion plane

if you don't opt for any rotation, bimax will only pull your jaws strict forward a few mm, instead of rotating the jaw counter clockwise. it will make your face longer too.

if you have SFS they can also do it the opposite way, clockwise and positioning it downward.

 

[Deleted member 7776]

rotates your maxilla., and thus your occlusion plane

if you don't opt for any rotation, bimax will only pull your jaws strict forward a few mm, instead of rotating the upper jaw counter clockwise. it will make your face longer too.

if you have SFS they can also do it the opposite way, clockwise and positioning it downward.

OK and what does that achieve visually?

 

[oatmeal]

OK and what does that achieve visually?

excuse me im wrong it only rotates ur jaw lol. but lefort 1 will move the maxilla forward.

uh, it will make the mandible look more parallel to the floor?

 

[Deleted member 5187]

I don't trust the pics the surgeons post themselves.
All who do them for aesthetics got tendencies to change angle, lens distortion, different lighting, poses, patients lost bodyfat from not being able to eat, photoshop etc.

 

[Mastermind]

I don't trust the pics the surgeons post themselves.
All who do them for aesthetics got tendencies to change angle, lens distortion, different lighting, poses, patients lost bodyfat from not being able to eat, photoshop etc.

Same could be said about the "legendary" result having the patient keep his mouth open in the mouthbreathing pose before and still look bad in the after.
You can see his face has improved.

 

[kubo]

Well in all honestly you cant promise a miracle, or that the result will be unaesthethic, or either insubstantial.

There are cases and cases and surgery is not cope as long as you're extremely knowledgeable and know how it will impact your face.

100% this, if you go to a plastic surgeon for a "new" nose or jaw and still look like shit don't be surprised...if you don't understand what makes attractive people attractive then you need to pull your head out of your ass and start taking notes.

Start a journal, even a little .txt of things you notice that look good on people you find attractive, ask question, if you can hide porn on your computer you sure as hell can hide inspiration pics if it embarrasses you.

Make a folder of the kind of people you'd like to look like, study what features they have that you lack, try to understand the WHY, a doctor more often than not doesn't give a shit about whether or not you'll "ascend". Anytime you plan on surgerymaxxing you need to take life into your hands and do your homework otherwise you'll waste money and time recovering only to realize it barely did anything for you.

There's really nothing else like seeing you guys succeed and ascend, realize how many people on here are looking for that inspiration and proof, do your homework and be the next one to go up on that wall of fame for those who seek to be good-looking and want to achieve.

 

[RealSurgerymax]

Very good point about excessive ogee curve when a retruded person over-augments cheekbones

 

[Benjibanks]

Many users in this forum resort to the fatalist thinking that surgery and all hardmaxxing procedures are cope because "no startling improvements have been registered", "recoveries are too harsh" or they simply have "ruined the patient's facial appearance".

In this serious thread, I would like to take the stance of bimax (w/ CCW, genioplasty, downgraft, etc.) and orbital rim implants, two surgeries that - if done correctly - can truly change lives.

One bad, gaslighting example of a useless bimax result I would like to highlight is this person's, which has been described by some of you members as "incredible" but not particularly lifesaving. Despite being an appreciable result, this is not what an aesthetic-oriented double jaw surgery should typically realize.

View attachment 910375

Notice how the popular "CCW rotation" targetting the upper jaw (lower maxilla) is insignificant if not completely absent.
The performed BSSO (lower jaw) advancement in this picture resolved the patient's malocclusion and mandible recession, but did not affect his scarce forward growth in the slightest. The face still looks flat and recessed.

His projection, midface ratio and many other forward growth related features could have been improved by a significantly larger CCW rotation and maxillary advancement, maybe compensated by downgrafting or a genioplasty - yet this did not happen because this surgery, differently from what you may think, did not target aesthetics but rather the sole health factors spawned by the recession.

This, instead, is one of Dr. Sailer's (hardcore blackpilled surgeon) results. Notice the added forward growth: pronounced jaw, slightly upturned nose, upper lip is no longer flat, better chin projection, maxilla does not appear recessed anymore. All of this has been possible because the surgery was aimed towards pure aesthetic improvements rather than health concerns.

View attachment 910383

Another procedure which is very commonly ostracized by PSL members is the appliance of orbital rim implants and the whole group of midface implants as a whole, described to look bad and plastic-like.

Again, this stigma originates from the fact that most surgery patients - which are bluepilled - are unaware of the underlying workings of the maxilla and decide to "boost" their cheekbones and under eye area forward without proper support being available, alas the lower maxilla (and jaw) are still recessed and cannot afford to substain the added material. This emerges into an excessive ogee curve, ultimately resulting in the unnatural surgery freak look.

This is the main reason why it is often suggested to perform double jaw first then later proceed to the application of midface implants. People who refuse to comply to this standard are doomed to botch their appearance.

Problem is that I doubt any surgeon will do what she sailer does. I’ve talked to one who seems to care very much about looks but he only prescribed 8 mm advancement. Any idea if that is an appropriate amount?

 

[Mastermind]

Problem is that I doubt any surgeon will do what she sailer does. I’ve talked to one who seems to care very much about looks but he only prescribed 8 mm advancement. Any idea if that is an appropriate amount?

Sailer is one of the few truly blackpilled surgeons. Have you heard his talks? It's pure suicidefuel for maxillalets.
Few do what he does, maybe Raffaini.

 

[aphelios]

Again, this stigma originates from the fact that most surgery patients - which are bluepilled - are unaware of the underlying workings of the maxilla and decide to "boost" their cheekbones and under eye area forward without proper support being available, alas the lower maxilla (and jaw) are still recessed and cannot afford to substain the added material. This emerges into an excessive ogee curve, ultimately resulting in the unnatural surgery freak look.

So wait a moment, I want to get peek cheekbones implant (my cheekbones are flat) with a bimax, my maxilla is in already good position and im not super recessed on the lower jaw, after i get the bimax can i get the cheekbones implant or i still need something?

"This emerges into an excessive ogee curve" are you referring to people getting cheekbones implant or implant without gettin bimax first or i got this wrong?

 

[Deleted member 10185]

why his back skull look different? Hair style?

 

[oatmeal]

this was a good thread tbh, bumping it for further discussion

 

[Deleted member 10172]

Many users in this forum resort to the fatalist thinking that surgery and all hardmaxxing procedures are cope because "no startling improvements have been registered", "recoveries are too harsh" or they simply have "ruined the patient's facial appearance".

In this serious thread, I would like to take the stance of bimax (w/ CCW, genioplasty, downgraft, etc.) and orbital rim implants, two surgeries that - if done correctly - can truly change lives.

One bad, gaslighting example of a useless bimax result I would like to highlight is this person's, which has been described by some of you members as "incredible" but not particularly lifesaving. Despite being an appreciable result, this is not what an aesthetic-oriented double jaw surgery should typically realize.

View attachment 910375

Notice how the popular "CCW rotation" targetting the upper jaw (lower maxilla) is insignificant if not completely absent.
The performed BSSO (lower jaw) advancement in this picture resolved the patient's malocclusion and mandible recession, but did not affect his scarce forward growth in the slightest. The face still looks flat and recessed.

His projection, midface ratio and many other forward growth related features could have been improved by a significantly larger CCW rotation and maxillary advancement, maybe compensated by downgrafting or a genioplasty - yet this did not happen because this surgery, differently from what you may think, did not target aesthetics but rather the sole health factors spawned by the recession.

This, instead, is one of Dr. Sailer's (hardcore blackpilled surgeon) results. Notice the added forward growth: pronounced jaw, slightly upturned nose, upper lip is no longer flat, better chin projection, maxilla does not appear recessed anymore. All of this has been possible because the surgery was aimed towards pure aesthetic improvements rather than health concerns.

View attachment 910383

Another procedure which is very commonly ostracized by PSL members is the appliance of orbital rim implants and the whole group of midface implants as a whole, described to look bad and plastic-like.

Again, this stigma originates from the fact that most surgery patients - which are bluepilled - are unaware of the underlying workings of the maxilla and decide to "boost" their cheekbones and under eye area forward without proper support being available, alas the lower maxilla (and jaw) are still recessed and cannot afford to substain the added material. This emerges into an excessive ogee curve, ultimately resulting in the unnatural surgery freak look.

This is the main reason why it is often suggested to perform double jaw first then later proceed to the application of midface implants. People who refuse to comply to this standard are doomed to botch their appearance.

So Dr Ramireri or dr Sailer or death