Face pulling before/after Radiograph

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i am now fully convinced facepulling is legit:
"The patient agreed to four months of protraction (during the summer while out of school) for 18–20 hours per day. At the completion of expansion and protraction, the patient’s molar and canine relationships were overcorrected to a slight class II tendency. Overall treatment and malar development were highly successful (Figures 7, 8, and 11). The patient’s malocclusion was primarily corrected with maxillary protraction and clockwise/vertical rotation of the mandible (Figures 9, 10, and 12). A point moved forward 1.5 mm and downward 2 mm (Figure 12). Pogonion moved 2 mm down and 2 mm backward. Her upper lip moved forward 2 mm. The patient was incredibly pleased with the overall results. She exhibited great cooperation with her treatment, especially with the wearing of the facemask and intraoral elastics. This undoubtedly greatly contributed to her successful treatment result. An honest evaluation of the expected patient cooperation is always important in orthodontic treatment but especially with a teenager with several different patient compliance dependent appliances. She was retained with a maxillary Hawley and fixed mandibular canine to canine retainer. Treatment was completed in 17 months and proved to be stable following the active treatment."
1585828409929

"During the slow expansion (1 turn or 1/4 mm per day) the midpalatal suture opened, and rapid expansion (two turns or 1/2 mm per day) was continued from that point on. The expander was activated with a total of 5 mm over a period of 16 days and then stabilized with light cured composite. The facemask had forehead and chin anchorage pads secured to a vertical bar. The 14 oz 1/2 inch elastics used to deliver a force of 500 gm bilaterally were attached to hooks on the expander in the maxillary canine areas and a crossbar on the facemask with a downward direction of about 30 degrees. "

This girl is an adult, 19 years old who obtained results in 4 months using bluepilled weight(0.5kg)
She gave herself downwards growth by pulling downwards, which means its possible to get upwards growth by pulling upwards

i am in utter disbelief at the possibilities 😲

if she had continued for a year she would have essentially gotten a risk free Lefort 3 😲

 
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what kind of facepuller did she use?
edit
i read it she used facebow
 
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a face puller nigga

customize ur own based on ur own desires son
they pulled a little downwards btw
she developed a gummy smile
im not your son
but you are my little bitch
 
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AYO NIGGA MY ASS BE NEEDING A SHORTER MIDFACE THO
 
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This is very bad

First of all that forward growth she got was not any forward projection of the maxilla at all, just teeth displacement through the alveolar bone due to it being bone anchored

Also she got downward growth
This is unideal, its better not to correct it if its going to lead to downward growth

It’s literally lefort 2 or death
Im even thinking now that mse and fm is cope
It wont work
 
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what kind of facepuller did she use?
edit
i read it she used facebow
she used a "reverse pull headgear" aka "facemask" because she had underbite.

this device pulls the maxilla forward and pushes the mandible back at the same time
 
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Brb looking like Barrett
 
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This is very bad

First of all that forward growth she got was not any forward projection of the maxilla at all, just teeth displacement through the alveolar bone due to it being bone anchored

Also she got downward growth
This is unideal, its better not to correct it if its going to lead to downward growth

It’s literally lefort 2 or death
Im even thinking now that mse and fm is cope
It wont work
No,
it worked on her because she had screws in her palate so they pulled the maxilla forward
we couldnt do this even with nelson's puller because we dont have screws we would only pull the avleolar bone
she got downward growth because they pulled downwards
here is a study
"To increase the skeletal effect on the maxilla, facemask therapy is often combined with rapid maxillary expansion (RME). A stimulating effect on the midfacial sutures caused by distraction with an improved response on protraction is expected. "
 
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No,
it worked on her because she had screws in her palate so they pulled the maxilla forward
we couldnt do this even with nelson's shitty puller because we dont have screws we would only pull the avleolar bone
she got downward growth because they pulled downwards
here is a study
"To increase the skeletal effect on the maxilla, facemask therapy is often combined with rapid maxillary expansion (RME). A stimulating effect on the midfacial sutures caused by distraction with an improved response on protraction is expected. "
Even if you pull upwards it will still grow downwards
 
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they pulled a little downwards btw
she developed a gummy smile
im not your son
but you are my little bitch
yeah I mentioned that.

Also, I literally don't even know who you are.
This is very bad

First of all that forward growth she got was not any forward projection of the maxilla at all, just teeth displacement through the alveolar bone due to it being bone anchored

Also she got downward growth
This is unideal, its better not to correct it if its going to lead to downward growth

It’s literally lefort 2 or death
Im even thinking now that mse and fm is cope
It wont work
She pulled at 30 degrees downwards

pulling down gives you downwards growth, pulling up gives you upwards growth.
 
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Lifefuel as always, as expected of u boyo
 
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i am now fully convinced facepulling is legit:
"The patient agreed to four months of protraction (during the summer while out of school) for 18–20 hours per day. At the completion of expansion and protraction, the patient’s molar and canine relationships were overcorrected to a slight class II tendency. Overall treatment and malar development were highly successful (Figures 7, 8, and 11). The patient’s malocclusion was primarily corrected with maxillary protraction and clockwise/vertical rotation of the mandible (Figures 9, 10, and 12). A point moved forward 1.5 mm and downward 2 mm (Figure 12). Pogonion moved 2 mm down and 2 mm backward. Her upper lip moved forward 2 mm. The patient was incredibly pleased with the overall results. She exhibited great cooperation with her treatment, especially with the wearing of the facemask and intraoral elastics. This undoubtedly greatly contributed to her successful treatment result. An honest evaluation of the expected patient cooperation is always important in orthodontic treatment but especially with a teenager with several different patient compliance dependent appliances. She was retained with a maxillary Hawley and fixed mandibular canine to canine retainer. Treatment was completed in 17 months and proved to be stable following the active treatment."
View attachment 333585
"During the slow expansion (1 turn or 1/4 mm per day) the midpalatal suture opened, and rapid expansion (two turns or 1/2 mm per day) was continued from that point on. The expander was activated with a total of 5 mm over a period of 16 days and then stabilized with light cured composite. The facemask had forehead and chin anchorage pads secured to a vertical bar. The 14 oz 1/2 inch elastics used to deliver a force of 500 gm bilaterally were attached to hooks on the expander in the maxillary canine areas and a crossbar on the facemask with a downward direction of about 30 degrees. "

This girl is an adult, 19 years old who obtained results in 4 months using bluepilled weight(0.5kg)
She gave herself downwards growth by pulling downwards, which means its possible to get upwards growth by pulling upwards

i am in utter disbelief at the possibilities 😲

if she had continued for a year she would have essentially gotten a risk free Lefort 3 😲

Muh muh elias said facepulling is cope

JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO LAZY AND DUMB TO BUILD IT DOESN'T MEAN ITS COPE
 
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"18–20 hours per day". And she didn't even get much movement. Better off getting jaw surgery.
 
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"18–20 hours per day". And she didn't even get much movement. Better off getting jaw surgery.
1.5mm advancement from 4 months with 0.5kg

6mm advancement from 4 months with 2kg
 
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1.5mm advancement from 4 months with 0.5kg

6mm advancement from 4 months with 2kg
JFL it doesn't even matter as it's a long term process, no one here is getting lefort 3 so this is their best option.
 
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For 3 months

okay? 18-20 hours a day. With a device on your face. Facepulling with a belt is just going to fuck your teeth up. And even with the device, you may not get the results doing it say.... 8 hours a day, even over a longer time. Material engineering properties can be weird like that.

And you all are assuming this could be done for a year with linear adaptation of the bone and no side affects.
 
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This is very bad

First of all that forward growth she got was not any forward projection of the maxilla at all, just teeth displacement through the alveolar bone due to it being bone anchored

Also she got downward growth
This is unideal, its better not to correct it if its going to lead to downward growth

It’s literally lefort 2 or death
Im even thinking now that mse and fm is cope
It wont work
Nope her entire maxilla got pulled forward and more zygo projection is noted in the study
 
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Useless thread, I don't see how her gonial angle was reduced or maxilla placed forward. Only because she managed to get downward growth it doesn't mean it works the same for upward growth because you have to consider the role of gravity.
 
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Useless thread, I don't see how her gonial angle was reduced or maxilla placed forward. Only because she managed to get downward growth it doesn't mean it works the same for upward growth because you have to consider the role of gravity.
i been shittin on my haters
 
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Is nelson facepuller good?
 
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Useless thread, I don't see how her gonial angle was reduced or maxilla placed forward. Only because she managed to get downward growth it doesn't mean it works the same for upward growth because you have to consider the role of gravity.
Her gonial angle wasn't increased because she pulled 30 degrees downwards rather than upwards. Her upper lip protrudes 2mm more than it did 4 months prior, indicating maxillary change. gravity takes years to make a noticeable change on your bone structure, not months. this means gravity is weaker than the face puller.
okay? 18-20 hours a day. With a device on your face. Facepulling with a belt is just going to fuck your teeth up. And even with the device, you may not get the results doing it say.... 8 hours a day, even over a longer time. Material engineering properties can be weird like that.

And you all are assuming this could be done for a year with linear adaptation of the bone and no side affects.
you can sleep with it on. 12-15 hours is more than enough to see change within a year. Nobody said anything about a belt. The side effects if any will be negligible compared to the benefits you're reaping.
 
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What did she anchor the facepuller to?

The Dowden with copes neck brace puller is ideal
Any progress for you as of now?
 
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Any progress for you as of now?
I haven’t officially started yet, I’m still perfecting my appliance. New vid will be out for the final version, then I will take my pics and start.
 
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Her gonial angle wasn't increased because she pulled 30 degrees downwards rather than upwards. gravity takes years to make a noticeable change on your bone structure, not months. this means gravity is weaker than the face puller.

you can sleep with it on. 12-15 hours is more than enough to see change within a year. Nobody said anything about a belt. The side effects if any will be negligible compared to the benefits you're reaping.
It's easier to destroy than to create. Downward development is much easier to achieve, that's why the human skull is so susceptible to mouthbreathing. You are basically pushing in the same direction as gravity, I mean to me it seems logical that the force used for pushing downards is not as effective as for pushing upwards.
 
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It's easier to destroy than to create. Downward development is much easier to achieve, that's why the human skull is so susceptible to mouthbreathing. You are basically pushing in the same direction of gravity, I mean to me it seems logical that the force used for pushing downards is not as effective as for pushing upwards.
You are overestimating what gravity can do in 4 months to your bones and underestimating what 2kg rather than 0.5kg could do in 4 months to your bones.
 
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You are overestimating what gravity can do in 4 months to your bones and underestimating what 2kg rather than 0.5kg could do in 4 months to your bones.

I agree with you that gravity really probably isn't a big factor. But one consideration in regards to moving the maxilla upward vs downwards is compressive vs tensile strength of bone. When pulling downward and out, the bone is in tension. Upwards, part of the bone is also in compression. And like concrete, bone has a much higher compressive strength rather than tensile strength. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but it's worth considering and I'd need to see a study on it.
 
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I agree with you that gravity really probably isn't a big factor. But one consideration in regards to moving the maxilla upward vs downwards is compressive vs tensile strength of bone. When pulling downward and out, the bone is in tension. Upwards, part of the bone is also in compression. And like concrete, bone has a much higher compressive strength rather than tensile strength. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but it's worth considering and I'd need to see a study on it.
fair point.
 
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What did she anchor the facepuller to?

The Dowden with copes neck brace puller is ideal
I cant get materials for dowden because i live in poland :feelsbadman::feelsbadman::feelsbadman:
 
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The best part about this study is that the pulling was done via tooth anchoring, and every study says that forces that go straight into the bone without using the tooth to transport the force gets results at nearly 2x the speed
 
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The best part about this study is that the pulling was done via tooth anchoring, and every study says that forces that go straight into the bone without using the tooth to transport the force gets results at nearly 2x the speed
anchoring into the bone + 2kg instead of 0.5kg + 30 degrees up instead of down should give at least 3x faster and better results :love:
 
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I agree with you that gravity really probably isn't a big factor. But one consideration in regards to moving the maxilla upward vs downwards is compressive vs tensile strength of bone. When pulling downward and out, the bone is in tension. Upwards, part of the bone is also in compression. And like concrete, bone has a much higher compressive strength rather than tensile strength. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but it's worth considering and I'd need to see a study on it.
Won moon did some study running a simulation using an upwards force and it still resulted in significant forward growth like the simulations pulling downwards, uniquely enough pulling upwards was the ONLY direction that resulted in high levels of compression on all of the circummaxillary sutures, which is what generates the bone for forward growth
 
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Just get this if ur concerned about using a device for 20+hours a day (doesn't cause cw rotation)
I think the only downside is not being able to use much force
download.jpg
 
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Won moon did some study running a simulation using an upwards force and it still resulted in significant forward growth like the simulations pulling downwards, uniquely enough pulling upwards was the ONLY direction that resulted in high levels of compression on all of the circummaxillary sutures, which is what generates the bone for forward growth
link?
 
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anchoring into the bone + 2kg instead of 0.5kg + 30 degrees up instead of down should give at least 3x faster and better results :love:
I’m using an appliance that mimics bone borne anchoring but you can’t go above 1.2kg if you want to want to pull for more than 2 hours, acylric is way too hard and the soft tissues in the palate can get irritated pretty easily, tooth pulling was 5x more comfortable but no pain no gain

even if you get surgically implanted screws you cant go above 700g, the screws have a super high failure rate in the maxilla and will come out a lot
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4456601/ part about compression/tension is in like middle of study
 
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I’m using an appliance that mimics bone borne anchoring but you can’t go above 1.2kg if you want to want to pull for more than 2 hours, acylric is way too hard and the soft tissues in the palate can get irritated pretty easily, tooth pulling was 5x more comfortable but no pain no gain

even if you get surgically implanted screws you cant go above 700g, the screws have a super high failure rate in the maxilla and will come out a lot

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4456601/ part about compression/tension is in like middle of study
does 1.2kg for 2 hours mog 0.5kg for 20 hours?
 
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does 1.2kg for 2 hours mog 0.5kg for 20 hours?
.5 would mog probably quite hard, but you can use 1.2 for 20 hours if you have a high pain tolerance and a lot of determination, I personally use 1kg and it still sucks balls, but expecting to use something like 1.6kg is going to be completely implausible, I tried and my palate got bruised in like 3 hours of use just trying to push through the pain (not a good idea)
 
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.5 would mog probably quite hard, but you can use 1.2 for 20 hours if you have a high pain tolerance and a lot of determination, I personally use 1kg, but expecting to use something like 1.6kg is going to be completely implausible, I tried and my palate got bruised in like 3 hours of use just trying to push through the pain (not a good idea)
how long have you been facepulling and how long would you estimate to see visible change?
 
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Cope
 
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how long have you been facepulling and how long would you estimate to see visible change?
I did tooth borne for a month then had to take like a 10 day break trying to make a new appliance that didn’t use the teeth, so I’ve only been using it for around a week now, since after I got it working I tried using the same force I used when I pulled on my teeth and ended up just bruising my palate and had to let it heal

I’m hoping to see visibly noticeable results in 3ish months, combined with mk677 (I have like 2 month supply of left over but I’m not going to buy more after I run out) mk4 and also pushing forward from behind my cheekbones for 15 mins a day before bed to apply even more tension to the circummaxillary sutures, basically anything to speed up bone growth
 
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I’m hungry for some Burger King
 
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I’m using an appliance that mimics bone borne anchoring but you can’t go above 1.2kg if you want to want to pull for more than 2 hours, acylric is way too hard and the soft tissues in the palate can get irritated pretty easily, tooth pulling was 5x more comfortable but no pain no gain

even if you get surgically implanted screws you cant go above 700g, the screws have a super high failure rate in the maxilla and will come out a lot

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4456601/ part about compression/tension is in like middle of study
Figure F mogs in that study, but would the results differ from pulling from MSE? Cause the implants are located on the frontal part of the maxilla instead of the palate
 
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Figure F mogs in that study, but would the results differ from pulling from MSE? Cause the implants are located on the frontal part of the maxilla instead of the palate
if you pulled at the frontal part the maxilla would be CCW rotated more (assuming you pulled upwards) but there’s really no way to tell how it would affect forward growth without further simulations/studies
 
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A
 
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