Is Dr. Y a good choice for eye area work?

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SurgerySoon

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Those of you who are familiar with my surgical goals and history know that I have already had custom midface and chin implants designed and placed. Now, I'm looking at having my eye area overhauled so that I can become as attractive as possible (my abysmal eye area is my most prominent looks detractor at this point). I was originally planning on going with Taban, but many of his recent results seem to be somewhat underwhelming. At the same time, results like the before/after photos posted below seem to indicate that Dr. Y is capable of overhauling eye areas as well:

1567899800934.png




I know that Taban is the biggest oculoplastic surgeon name in the PSL/looksmaxxing community, but I'm just afraid of spending $20k+ to end up with a result that isn't particularly noticeable. Dr. Y suggested the exact same procedures as Taban (orbital decompression, lower lid retraction surgery w/ spacer graft, lateral canthoplasty), so if I could possibly get the same results with Dr. Y for a lot less money, should I at least consider getting eye area surgery with him instead?
 
Elgoblino

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What's the full name of the doctor?
 
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justanothergymcell

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That photo looks old. I would ask Dr Y for a more recent set of result pictures that demonstrate any of the procedures above. Also, did they recommend all of the exact same procedures without any input bias, for example you telling one what the other doctor recommended up front? I would honestly try consulting with more occuloplastic surgeons before making a decision. Two other good ones in Beverly hills are Dr Kami Parsa and Dr Christoper Zoumalan. I wouldn't get overly attached to the same and ONLY two or three doctors PSL communities ever seem to suggest. There should also be one or two good occuloplastic surgeons local to you that you can consult with in person to also get another opinion.
 
Tyrionlannistercel

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why did her nose get worse?
 
Dope

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ZUZZCEL

ZUZZCEL

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Those of you who are familiar with my surgical goals and history know that I have already had custom midface and chin implants designed and placed. Now, I'm looking at having my eye area overhauled so that I can become as attractive as possible (my abysmal eye area is my most prominent looks detractor at this point). I was originally planning on going with Taban, but many of his recent results seem to be somewhat underwhelming. At the same time, results like the before/after photos posted below seem to indicate that Dr. Y is capable of overhauling eye areas as well:

View attachment 108085



I know that Taban is the biggest oculoplastic surgeon name in the PSL/looksmaxxing community, but I'm just afraid of spending $20k+ to end up with a result that isn't particularly noticeable. Dr. Y suggested the exact same procedures as Taban (orbital decompression, lower lid retraction surgery w/ spacer graft, lateral canthoplasty), so if I could possibly get the same results with Dr. Y for a lot less money, should I at least consider getting eye area surgery with him instead?
isnt dr Y more expensive then taban? lol
 
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SurgerySoon

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isnt dr Y more expensive then taban? lol
Not sure; I haven't received a price quote yet from Yaremchuk for the same procedures that Taban wants to do. Taban charges around $20k for orbital decompression, lower eyelid retraction surgery w/spacer graft, and lateral canthoplasty.
 
ZUZZCEL

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Not sure; I haven't received a price quote yet from Yaremchuk for the same procedures that Taban wants to do. Taban charges around $20k for orbital decompression, lower eyelid retraction surgery w/spacer graft, and lateral canthoplasty.
ahh I see, I would get a price quote then, no harm in doing so. Considering Dr Ys age, Im not sure if i would want him doing multple procedures on my eyes.

Im curious, your not getting a infraoribital implant?
 
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SurgerySoon

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ahh I see, I would get a price quote then, no harm in doing so. Considering Dr Ys age, Im not sure if i would want him doing multple procedures on my eyes.

Im curious, your not getting a infraoribital implant?
Yeah, I'll at least get a price quote and see how his prices compare to Taban's. BTW, Dr. Y is only like 4-5 years older than Eppley, LOL.

To answer your question, my midface implants already have an infraorbital component (I think they added like 2.5 - 3 mm of projection under each eye), so I don't need anymore implants in that area AFAIK.
 
ZUZZCEL

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Yeah, I'll at least get a price quote and see how his prices compare to Taban's. BTW, Dr. Y is only like 4-5 years older than Eppley, LOL.

To answer your question, my midface implants already have an infraorbital component (I think they added like 2.5 - 3 mm of projection under each eye), so I don't need anymore implants in that area AFAIK.
ohh, i would have gotten 5mm+ tbh, you really notice it at those measurements


is Dr Y as pricey as eppley?
 
Dope

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ohh, i would have gotten 5mm+ tbh, you really notice it at those measurements


is Dr Y as pricey as eppley?
Do you have any good orbital rim implants you can pm me? All the ones on google aren't that impressive.
 
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SurgerySoon

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ohh, i would have gotten 5mm+ tbh, you really notice it at those measurements


is Dr Y as pricey as eppley?
I had asked Dr. Y about going bigger with the midface implants but he said they would've probably looked unnatural in my face. How many mm of infraorbital projection did you get?

I think Dr. Y used to be a little more expensive than Eppley, but I heard that Eppley raised his prices recently, so they're probably about the same price-wise now.
 
ZUZZCEL

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I had asked Dr. Y about going bigger with the midface implants but he said they would've probably looked unnatural in my face. How many mm of infraorbital projection did you get?

I think Dr. Y used to be a little more expensive than Eppley, but I heard that Eppley raised his prices recently, so they're probably about the same price-wise now.
i got 5 mms i believe on both sides. Eppley told me that infraorbital implants really shine at the 5-6mm range.

ill pm you pics btw, they really improved my eye area
Do you have any good orbital rim implants you can pm me? All the ones on google aren't that impressive.
ill pm u mine
fck it ill just post it here

1567921123223.png
 
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Dope

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i got 5 mms i believe on both sides. Eppley told me that infraorbital implants really shine at the 5-6mm range.

ill pm you pics btw, they really improved my eye area


ill pm u mine
thx bro
 
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SurgerySoon

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i got 5 mms i believe on both sides. Eppley told me that infraorbital implants really shine at the 5-6mm range.

ill pm you pics btw, they really improved my eye area


ill pm u mine
fck it ill just post it here

View attachment 108253
Looks good; are both of those post-surgery pics? Or only the one on the right?
 
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SurgerySoon

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nah

its a before/after

the one on the right is after
Yeah, that's what I figured. You should definitely notice more of the final result by the 3-month mark. My skin was so apparently so thick that it resulted in swelling that lasted for well over 3 months. Even by late May, the few people I know IRL who know about my surgeries said my face still looked puffy. Even within the past few weeks, it seems like there's even less puffiness than there was a month ago.
 
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kota

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Does Dr. Y do orbital decompression as well? I would be very wary of doing orbital decompression with anything but an eye specialist with lots of experience in this as the potential risks of could really mess you up.
 
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SurgerySoon

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Does Dr. Y do orbital decompression as well? I would be very wary of doing orbital decompression with anything but an eye specialist with lots of experience in this as the potential risks of could really mess you up.
@kota Dr. Y does do orbital decompression; in fact, that's one of the procedures he did for the lady whose photos I posted. However, I'm somewhat apprehensive about going with Dr. Y for orbital decompression (though less worried about the other eye procedures) for the very risks you alluded to -- blindness, double vision, etc. To be honest, the main reason I started looking into other surgeons is simply because some of Taban's most recent work has been somewhat subtle and underwhelming, so it just kind of sucks to think that I could end up spending thousands more to end up with relatively the same result that I'd get from Dr. Y, for example. The thing is, I'm looking for a HUGE, dramatic change. See the morph below (not sure if I've shown this to you yet):

Screenshot_20190522-005011_Chrome.jpg
 
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kota

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@kota Dr. Y does do orbital decompression; in fact, that's one of the procedures he did for the lady whose photos I posted. However, I'm somewhat apprehensive about going with Dr. Y for orbital decompression (though less worried about the other eye procedures) for the very risks you alluded to -- blindness, double vision, etc. To be honest, the main reason I started looking into other surgeons is simply because some of Taban's most recent work has been somewhat subtle and underwhelming, so it just kind of sucks to think that I could end up spending thousands more to end up with relatively the same result that I'd get from Dr. Y, for example. The thing is, I'm looking for a HUGE, dramatic change. See the morph below (not sure if I've shown this to you yet):

View attachment 108338
When referring to his latest work, did you just look at the pics at his website? Most people on there probably weren't looking for as dramatic of a change as you are but if you are clear to him about your goals he should be able to tell you how close to them he can get.

I couldn't say how well Dr Y's results would measure up compared to Tabans but I would just be very cautious with selecting a surgeon for orbital decompression in particular.
 
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SurgerySoon

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When referring to his latest work, did you just look at the pics at his website? Most people on there probably weren't looking for as dramatic of a change as you are but if you are clear to him about your goals he should be able to tell you how close to them he can get.

I couldn't say how well Dr Y's results would measure up compared to Tabans but I would just be very cautious with selecting a surgeon for orbital decompression in particular.
@kota Yeah, I pretty much just went off of photos posted on his website (especially the more recent results). Taban said I can probably get 70-80% of the result depicted in that morph I posted, although he said it's possible I could get even closer than that, depending on how bad the scar tissue build-up from my first surgeries is. I think he said that he usually prefers to under-estimate what he can achieve for patients, although he is often successful in achieving their goals when the surgery is actually performed. He did warn me that the results I'm looking for would confer a "significant change" to my looks that would be so dramatic that it would trigger an identity complex in certain patients. Ironically enough, at the time he told me that, he had no idea that that was EXACTLY the degree of substantial change I actually WANT to achieve.

BTW, I heard back from Dr. Y, and after looking at some of my most recent photos, he said he would recommend lower eyelid retraction surgery w/spacer grafts and lateral canthoplasty for both eyes, but orbital decompression only on the right eye. He really doesn't want to do orbital decompression on the left eye, even though I requested it. You're probably right in suggesting that I go with Taban or some other oculoplastic specialist; aside from the inherent risks associated with orbital decompression surgery, it sounds like he wants to go for a much more conservative result than Taban is willing to try to achieve.
 
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@kota Yeah, I pretty much just went off of photos posted on his website (especially the more recent results). Taban said I can probably get 70-80% of the result depicted in that morph I posted, although he said it's possible I could get even closer than that, depending on how bad the scar tissue build-up from my first surgeries is. I think he said that he usually prefers to under-estimate what he can achieve for patients, although he is often successful in achieving their goals when the surgery is actually performed. He did warn me that the results I'm looking for would confer a "significant change" to my looks that would be so dramatic that it would trigger an identity complex in certain patients. Ironically enough, at the time he told me that, he had no idea that that was EXACTLY the degree of substantial change I actually WANT to achieve.

BTW, I heard back from Dr. Y, and after looking at some of my most recent photos, he said he would recommend lower eyelid retraction surgery w/spacer grafts and lateral canthoplasty for both eyes, but orbital decompression only on the right eye. He really doesn't want to do orbital decompression on the left eye, even though I requested it. You're probably right in suggesting that I go with Taban or some other oculoplastic specialist; aside from the inherent risks associated with orbital decompression surgery, it sounds like he wants to go for a much more conservative result than Taban is willing to try to achieve.
Then maybe you are basing this partly on my pics at his site. To be fair the frontal view doesn't do full justice to the results of orbital decompression. The results from that alone are more noticeable in motion / other angles than in a plain full frontal view. Though obviously if done in conjunction with eyelid retraction surgery it will change the shape of the eyes in front view too.

Yes, the eyes are a huge part of the way we conceive and identify people so that sounds reasonable. Of all my surgeries the eyes were the only thing that people I already knew actually reacted to even though other changes were a lot more major in terms of actual measurements etc. A couple of people didn't even recognize me at first.

So if Dr Y would only do orbital decompression on one of your eyes, the best you could hope for is for him to match it with the other eye. If Taban would do it on both eyes, you won't have that same limiting factor. This is a good sign that he would be able to achieve a bigger change which is what you are looking for.

Also there are various parts and variations of orbital decompression. There is a number of boney walls inside the eye socket that can be modified (usually between 1 to 3 are done) as well as fat behind the eye that can be removed. For a drastic result, more of these areas need to be addressed. Some of them might be trickier than others. A particular surgeon who may have some experience with orbital decompression in general still might not be comfortable or experienced around all those areas which would be a limiting factor in how much he can achieve.
 
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Elijah1083

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Don’t go for a huge change, even if you need it. I’ve yet to see a dramatic eye area result that looked natural. Subtle is key. The eye area is very unforgiving and If you wind up looking unnatural, women will instantly be uninterested in you. There’s a doctor in Austin Texas who does lots of tear trough implants, he also does custom implants but not often. Google “tear trough implants Austin”, his results are much more impressive than Eppley’s, imo.
 
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SurgerySoon

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Then maybe you are basing this partly on my pics at his site. To be fair the frontal view doesn't do full justice to the results of orbital decompression. The results from that alone are more noticeable in motion / other angles than in a plain full frontal view. Though obviously if done in conjunction with eyelid retraction surgery it will change the shape of the eyes in front view too.

Yes, the eyes are a huge part of the way we conceive and identify people so that sounds reasonable. Of all my surgeries the eyes were the only thing that people I already knew actually reacted to even though other changes were a lot more major in terms of actual measurements etc. A couple of people didn't even recognize me at first.

So if Dr Y would only do orbital decompression on one of your eyes, the best you could hope for is for him to match it with the other eye. If Taban would do it on both eyes, you won't have that same limiting factor. This is a good sign that he would be able to achieve a bigger change which is what you are looking for.

Also there are various parts and variations of orbital decompression. There is a number of boney walls inside the eye socket that can be modified (usually between 1 to 3 are done) as well as fat behind the eye that can be removed. For a drastic result, more of these areas need to be addressed. Some of them might be trickier than others. A particular surgeon who may have some experience with orbital decompression in general still might not be comfortable or experienced around all those areas which would be a limiting factor in how much he can achieve.
@kota Actually, I think you had a really good result (although I personally am obviously going for something even more dramatic than what you had done). I was moreso basing my opinion off of before/after results like these:

1568055464043.png


I think the result looks good in general, but it's way too subtle for the kind of outcome I'm hoping to achieve. As you know and have seen from the morph I posted, I want really stunning, striking results that basically make me look like a different person. Every person I know IRL who I've shown the morph photo to has been taken aback, with most of them saying, "... But it looks like a totally different person. Are you sure that's a good idea?" Those kinds of reactions from people I've known for a long time, along with the fact that Taban himself told me (for liability purposes) that he wants me to acknowledge that the results I'm asking him to achieve could provoke an identity crisis in other patients, makes me pretty optimistic that Taban is willing to do what he can to achieve what I'm looking for.

Taban did say that he wouldn't need to do as much decompression on the left side. Actually his specific words in his email to me were, "You will probably need decompression on the left eye, just not as much as on the right"), so I guess there's a chance that he won't decompress the left eye.

What Yaremchuk and Taban both agreed on is that I have "lateral canthus malpositioning" in addition to overly prominent eyes and lower eyelid retraction. Both surgeons basically said that without lateral canthoplasty, my eyes will always have the noticeable NCT that makes me look sad, unconfident, and older.

To respond to your point about the variations on the decompression procedure itself -- Taban mentioned something about performing the "minimally invasive" form of the procedure on me, which I think includes 2 walls by default but could include 3, depending on whether hes able to get the eyes to sink in far enough by decompressing just 2 walls.

Right now, my primary concern is getting the funding lined up to be able to get the procedures done this December, the month of which I'll have off from school. I'm still paying off credit cards I maxed out to pay for my first surgeries with Dr. Y and am unable to work as often as I did last year since I'm now doing a full-time, unpaid internship that I started in June and which won't end until April 2020 (aside from the break in December that I mentioned). So basically, I either need to get approved for more credit cards or somehow try to get approved for a loan, which isn't likely to happen since I'm already paying off several cards from my previous surgeries. I also need to save at least a little money to make the move (which I've mentioned in my threads on here and on Lookism) next summer.

So yeah, once I get my eye area overhaul surgery and the rest of my wraparound jaw implant placed, I'm hoping to be done with "hard" looksmaxxing for a while, aside from maybe laser treatments to stimulate/maintain collagen production in my face. I may also consider getting a paranasal/premaxillary implant.



Regarding the orbital decompression issue, I think that Dr. Y thinks he will be able to lift the lower lids and do a canthoplasty on the left eye without doing decompression. I've noticed that when I push my left lower eyelid up, it does go up without really hitting the eyeball, but it comes pretty close to doing so. I think I'd probably get a decent eye surgery outcome with Dr. Y (provided I don't end up blind in my right eye from the decompression), but I still have a feeling that he's going to be too conservative relative to what I'm trying to achieve.
Don’t go for a huge change, even if you need it. I’ve yet to see a dramatic eye area result that looked natural. Subtle is key. The eye area is very unforgiving and If you wind up looking unnatural, women will instantly be uninterested in you. There’s a doctor in Austin Texas who does lots of tear trough implants, he also does custom implants but not often. Google “tear trough implants Austin”, his results are much more impressive than Eppley’s, imo.
@Elijah1083 The thing is, I want and NEED a huge change to my eye area. Even though I'll never have MM-tier due to subtle shortcomings with natural facial harmony, multiple people (including girls themselves) have told me that there are girls out there who would consider me to be legitimately hot if I had a more attractive eye area, especially since nothing else is really grievously "off" about my face. See below for some photos that clearly depict how bad my eyes look (the top series of photos is before custom midface+chin implants, the bottom series of photos were taken after exercising and are post-surgery photos):


As you can see, even though the midface and chin implants conferred an improvement, my eye area is still very bad. Check out the morph below to see the dramatic degree of change I'm trying to go for:

1568055417266.png
 
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kota

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@kota Actually, I think you had a really good result (although I personally am obviously going for something even more dramatic than what you had done). I was moreso basing my opinion off of before/after results like these:

View attachment 109138

I think the result looks good in general, but it's way too subtle for the kind of outcome I'm hoping to achieve. As you know and have seen from the morph I posted, I want really stunning, striking results that basically make me look like a different person. Every person I know IRL who I've shown the morph photo to has been taken aback, with most of them saying, "... But it looks like a totally different person. Are you sure that's a good idea?" Those kinds of reactions from people I've known for a long time, along with the fact that Taban himself told me (for liability purposes) that he wants me to acknowledge that the results I'm asking him to achieve could provoke an identity crisis in other patients, makes me pretty optimistic that Taban is willing to do what he can to achieve what I'm looking for.

Taban did say that he wouldn't need to do as much decompression on the left side. Actually his specific words in his email to me were, "You will probably need decompression on the left eye, just not as much as on the right"), so I guess there's a chance that he won't decompress the left eye.

What Yaremchuk and Taban both agreed on is that I have "lateral canthus malpositioning" in addition to overly prominent eyes and lower eyelid retraction. Both surgeons basically said that without lateral canthoplasty, my eyes will always have the noticeable NCT that makes me look sad, unconfident, and older.

To respond to your point about the variations on the decompression procedure itself -- Taban mentioned something about performing the "minimally invasive" form of the procedure on me, which I think includes 2 walls by default but could include 3, depending on whether hes able to get the eyes to sink in far enough by decompressing just 2 walls.

Right now, my primary concern is getting the funding lined up to be able to get the procedures done this December, the month of which I'll have off from school. I'm still paying off credit cards I maxed out to pay for my first surgeries with Dr. Y and am unable to work as often as I did last year since I'm now doing a full-time, unpaid internship that I started in June and which won't end until April 2020 (aside from the break in December that I mentioned). So basically, I either need to get approved for more credit cards or somehow try to get approved for a loan, which isn't likely to happen since I'm already paying off several cards from my previous surgeries. I also need to save at least a little money to make the move (which I've mentioned in my threads on here and on Lookism) next summer.

So yeah, once I get my eye area overhaul surgery and the rest of my wraparound jaw implant placed, I'm hoping to be done with "hard" looksmaxxing for a while, aside from maybe laser treatments to stimulate/maintain collagen production in my face. I may also consider getting a paranasal/premaxillary implant.



Regarding the orbital decompression issue, I think that Dr. Y thinks he will be able to lift the lower lids and do a canthoplasty on the left eye without doing decompression. I've noticed that when I push my left lower eyelid up, it does go up without really hitting the eyeball, but it comes pretty close to doing so. I think I'd probably get a decent eye surgery outcome with Dr. Y (provided I don't end up blind in my right eye from the decompression), but I still have a feeling that he's going to be too conservative relative to what I'm trying to achieve.


@Elijah1083 The thing is, I want and NEED a huge change to my eye area. Even though I'll never have MM-tier due to subtle shortcomings with natural facial harmony, multiple people (including girls themselves) have told me that there are girls out there who would consider me to be legitimately hot if I had a more attractive eye area, especially since nothing else is really grievously "off" about my face. See below for some photos that clearly depict how bad my eyes look (the top series of photos is before custom midface+chin implants, the bottom series of photos were taken after exercising and are post-surgery photos):


As you can see, even though the midface and chin implants conferred an improvement, my eye area is still very bad. Check out the morph below to see the dramatic degree of change I'm trying to go for:

View attachment 109137
Considering you are looking for a total overhaul you probably want the orbital decompression done on both eyes though obviously more on the one that is already further set back. This will not only help make your eyes more deep set but also contribute to the raise of the eyelids and perhaps make the result more sustainable long term since the eyes actually push the lids down when they are bulging. So with your goal in mind it sounds like you would need decompression on both eyes to come close to it.

I agree that you likely don't need any more hardmaxxing after those surgeries - even just fixing the eyes should be enough but I guess the jaw could give you a slight push too. Personally I wouldn't try to be cheap and save some money on the eye surgery with a potentially inferior result, just to spend more than what you saved later on a jaw implant that is debatable if you will really improve from.
 
Amnesia

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If it was me, personally, it wouldn't even be a question that I'd go with Taban over Y


Edit, you mentioned you showed Taban the morph and he said he can get close, did you show the morph to Dr Y and what was his thoughts on it?

@SurgerySoon
 
WannaBeA6

WannaBeA6

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Jesus, and I thought it was expensive when he charged me 11,500

I mean, I have the money but I'm not willing to spend it on a surgery like this, it's too much money, I think I'll take a look at my nearby doctors or something, I can't pay this shit
 
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Jesus, and I thought it was expensive when he charged me 11,500

I mean, I have the money but I'm not willing to spend it on a surgery like this, it's too much money, I think I'll take a look at my nearby doctors or something, I can't pay this shit
lol 20k isnt really much at all and is very much worth it in ops case.
 
WannaBeA6

WannaBeA6

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lol 20k isnt really much at all and is very much worth it in ops case.
What could you possibly mean that 20k isn't really much for plastic surgery you fuck?
 
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SurgerySoon

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Considering you are looking for a total overhaul you probably want the orbital decompression done on both eyes though obviously more on the one that is already further set back. This will not only help make your eyes more deep set but also contribute to the raise of the eyelids and perhaps make the result more sustainable long term since the eyes actually push the lids down when they are bulging. So with your goal in mind it sounds like you would need decompression on both eyes to come close to it.

I agree that you likely don't need any more hardmaxxing after those surgeries - even just fixing the eyes should be enough but I guess the jaw could give you a slight push too. Personally I wouldn't try to be cheap and save some money on the eye surgery with a potentially inferior result, just to spend more than what you saved later on a jaw implant that is debatable if you will really improve from.
I agree that to get as close as possible to achieving the dramatic results I'm after, I'll need to get decompression on both eyes. I know that most people don't think the jaw implant will make much difference, but when I look in a mirror from a far-back position, my jaw seems to look more round/oval shaped (much moreso than in up-close photos). I think the jaw implant will give my face much more angularity. Also, my jaw angles are placed very high, and by lowering them, this should help stretch my midface tissues out more and allow for them to collapse inwards to create more of that hollowing look in the cheeks. I know it's not a big deal but I want to look as chiseled as possible.

BTW, Dr. Y said that lower eyelid retraction surgery w/spacer grafts, lateral canthoplasty, and orbital decompression on one eye would cost $14.5k. Considering that Taban quoted $20k for all those procedures plus orbital decompression on both eyes, I guess Dr. Y isn't really much cheaper. Looks like I'll be going with Taban for the eye surgeries as soon as I can get the finances secured. I guess the only way it might still be cheaper to go with Dr. Y is if he was to give me a discount for doing the eyes + the jaw implant during the same surgery.

If it was me, personally, it wouldn't even be a question that I'd go with Taban over Y


Edit, you mentioned you showed Taban the morph and he said he can get close, did you show the morph to Dr Y and what was his thoughts on it?

@SurgerySoon
Actually, now that you mention it, Dr. Y didn't comment on the morph. He probably overlooked it since I had asked him several questions in the email I had sent to him that it was included in. I guess I need to re-send it to him to get his opinion on how close he thinks he can get to it, although (as I describe in my response to kota) his prices are hardly any cheaper than Taban's, so I'll probably just be going with Taban for the eye work.
Jesus, and I thought it was expensive when he charged me 11,500

I mean, I have the money but I'm not willing to spend it on a surgery like this, it's too much money, I think I'll take a look at my nearby doctors or something, I can't pay this shit
I have no choice, really... if Taban is really as skilled as he is reputed to be, I should come out of the surgery looking like a different person, although I know that @justanothergymcell and a few others think this is a bad goal to shoot for.
 
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ZUZZCEL

ZUZZCEL

Zephir
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
4,859
What could you possibly mean that 20k isn't really much for plastic surgery you fuck?
most ppl pay well up to 50k for multiple surgeries, plastic surgery isnt cheap unless u go to some 3rdworld shithole for a botch
 

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