mewing/agga vs lefort 1

[paulie_walnuts]

notice how mewing and agga only affect the alveolar ridge (lower part of the maxilla) while lefort 1 affects big parts of the maxilla

vs



lefort 1

The thing most people have to understand is that fagga develops the alveolar bone forward and then CA braces +FRLA develop it sideways.

The alveolar ridge is the bone that houses the teeth. You can think of it as the teeth sockets. When you open your mouth its above your upper teeth and below your lower teeth covered in gum.

It extends up to the end of the roots and is considered part of the maxilla but comprises no more than one third of it's length.

Unlike the skeletal upper two thirds of the maxilla the alveolar bone is malleable and can respond well to stimulation. Put a small light wire over the teeth and it will respond by expanding.

It does that by remolding, not growth. Meaning the existing bone is resorbed from the inside and placed on the outside to expand the arch and allow the tooth to move outward. The opposite can happen when retracting teeth.

The fagga appliance applies stimulation to this bone to achieve forward expansion. It's so good at that that some consider its effect growth. Its a adding new bone to the alveolar ridge. That certainly seems the case with some of the massive expansion cases we have seen where 12mm of forward of expansion and more is achieved. Though nothing is confirmed.

There are however, natural limits to how much you can expand the alveloar bone. You just can't keep expanding it as much as you like. There are limits set by the skeletal structure.

Galala and his friends at LVI counter by claiming that fagga can achieve full remolding and growth in the entire maxilla. That's such a bold claim to make. Orthodontists have been trying for decades to influence the skeletal structure with no avail. For them to claim they are changing it with fagga and provide no evidence is such a silly thing to claim. I am surprised the American Board of Orthodontics hasn't busted them over this.

And this brings us to another important point, expanding the alveolar ridge is nothing new. Every orthodontist knows it can be done. That why they always ask when I show them fagga "how are they going to retain the expansion, and expand the lower jaw?".

See most of them do not dispute the fact that fagga can move the alveolar ridge forward. It' just that they ask whats the point if its going to relapse afterwards?

You see the entire field of traditional orthodontics operates on one pretty consistent fact: when you expand the alveolar ridge it eventually relapses back. Galela argues that he is teaching his patients correct oral function and posture and this will stabilize the results. It would nice for this to happen.

But either way this does not help people who already have forward developed alveolar ridge as in your case. In your case the tongue has already pushed the alveolar ridge and teeth forward as much as possible for lack of skeletal development.

You can tell this by looking at your nasolabial angle. Its the angle between the bottom of your nose and upper lip. See this link to know what it is.

Looking at this picture it’s not really hard to tell the extent of growth on both faces. Most people would correctly identify the left face as recessed and the right one as forward, but how exactly is such difference determined? For many, the lower jawline is the giveaway. While this is...
www.aljabri.com

You started treatment at 90° and above. With your particular phenotype that is a sign that your alveolar ridge is fully developed to its maximum potential. This of course can be confirmed with the angulation of your teeth relative to the palatal plane in your maxilla.

I hope this clarifies few things and when I get a chance to finish writing my post I will share it with you.


https://ronaldead.com/blog/agga-is-not-the-holy-grail-of-adult-orthodontics

legit or nah?

 

[didntreadlol]

lefort is a meme surgery

 

[Deleted member 685]

lefort is a meme surgery

Why?

 

[paulie_walnuts]

i need lefort 2

 

[didntreadlol]

Why?

dangerous

 

[FaceandHFD]

dangerous

high inhib

 

[didntreadlol]

high inhib

 

[FaceandHFD]

still
if you need it(most unattractive men do) get it

 

[Deleted member 1106]

high inhib

Good luck finding a doctor that would even do it on you jfl, you need to be deformed tier recessed

 

[didntreadlol]

still
if you need it(most unattractive men do) get it

lefort yourself please

 

[FaceandHFD]

Good luck finding a doctor that would even do it on you jfl, you need to be deformed tier recessed

doctors do it even for cosmetic reasons in europe afaik.
why get it if you aren't recessed at all tho?

 

[paulie_walnuts]

Good luck finding a doctor that would even do it on you jfl, you need to be deformed tier recessed

lefort 1 is no problem

lefort 2 and 3 is a different level though

thats lefort 3 lefort 1 is different

 

[her]

i need lefort 2

i need lefort 3

 

[DarknLost]

Did he really die

 

[paulie_walnuts]

i need lefort 3

if my face was a house architects would suggest to demolish it and to rebuilt it from the start

 

[Iamthewalrus01]

Sigh, I wish you would get some real responses rather than a fucking 1 word answer.
Im looking into AGGA, mainly to fix previous orthodontic damage. I talked to a local dentist who offers this and we talked about it briefly. He measured my cosmetic line and told me I could use advancement, cant remember the exact number. However I dont suffer from TMJ or headache issues, and I dont think it would be worth it for purely cosmetic reasons alone.

I would say talk to a dentist who offers this device. They are pretty red pilled on the subject of mewing and facial balance in general.

 

[paulie_walnuts]

Sigh, I wish you would get some real responses rather than a fucking 1 word answer.
Im looking into AGGA, mainly to fix previous orthodontic damage. I talked to a local dentist who offers this and we talked about it briefly. He measured my cosmetic line and told me I could use advancement, cant remember the exact number. However I dont suffer from TMJ or headache issues, and I dont think it would be worth it for purely cosmetic reasons alone.

I would say talk to a dentist who offers this device. They are pretty red pilled on the subject of mewing and facial balance in general.

my view so far on the topic:

cons:

1. it is as expensive as double jaw surgery which is in my book way too overpriced

2. how do they want to prevent that the gain relapse?

3. what happens to the mandibular and the joint?

4. it looks like a lower percentage (the alveolar ridge) of the maxilla gets moved forward compared to lefort 1 which may lead to aesthetical LESS pleasing result in some people depending on the maxilla of the person




pro:

1. in ideal case no jaw surgery which comes with a few risk. some form of nerv damages are very very common and can be almost expected. no 3month long recovery where you can barely eat.

2. it looks like a lower percentage (the alveolar ridge) of the maxilla gets moved forward compared to lefort 1 which may lead to aesthetical MORE pleasing result for some people depending on the maxilla of the person

 

[im_still_here]

look at his chin- from european profile to african profile

 

[Whyamihere]

I need lefort 1 osteotomy

 

[toolateforme]

i was dreaming of le forts but what i figured out was my midface was too long and its not even possible to adhere, my maxilla was sunken inside which is hard to adhere, my brow ridge is nonexistence, (im asian)
i took a video with back camera of my phone and i figured out my deformation was another quantum universe level.
so im just considering suicide by now.

 

[im_still_here]

excessive dentoalveolar protrusion and proclination is a big risk with this procedure it seems. its over

 

[Whyamihere]

i was dreaming of le forts but what i figured out was my midface was too long and its not even possible to adhere, my maxilla was sunken inside which is hard to adhere, my brow ridge is nonexistence, (im asian)
i took a video with back camera of my phone and i figured out my deformation was another quantum universe level.
so im just considering suicide by now.

Bro pm me pics of you its maybe not over i also have long midface

 

[im_still_here]

good results imho

 

[chadpreetcel123]

no doctor will give you a lefort unless you're deformed JFL

 

[SayNoToRotting]

Mewing and FAGGA are almost nothing alike. Mewing works on the maxilla as a whole- far more 3 dimensional than both FAGGA and Lefort 1.

 

[Miro Chad]

Mewing and FAGGA are almost nothing alike. Mewing works on the maxilla as a whole- far more 3 dimensional than both FAGGA and Lefort 1.

Mewing is a meme if you are over 19.

 

[SayNoToRotting]

Mewing is a meme if you are over 19.

Wouldn't matter for me since I'm barely over 18

 

[im_still_here]

Mewing and FAGGA are almost nothing alike. Mewing works on the maxilla as a whole- far more 3 dimensional than both FAGGA and Lefort 1.

why should there be any difference between fagga and mewing

the principle is the same except that fagga is way stronger

 

[her]

what about fagga vs mse + fm?

 

[im_still_here]

look at his chin- from european profile to african profile

fuck found this proving my point. its over

It pushes on the teeth only and not on the skull bones which causes bimaxillary protrusion. This means that the teeth get pushed away from the bone into a dangerous position. This is clear in the above x-ray. Look at his upper teeth. Look at how the front ones moved. Look at how the back ones moved. Look at how the maxilla itself didn't. All the proof you need is in that x-ray if you study it carefully.

Be very careful of before and after photos. It's very easy to fake results using camera angles, lighting, and head tilting. Make sure to check all supposed results photos very thoroughly. Check the nose bridge angle. Check the ear angle. Check where the camera is pointed at. 99 percent of these types of pictures are frauds. All of the ones posted in here are. And even if a person does get slight advancement using a device like this, if it happens just because of teeth movement then it's not true advancement and it doesn't matter or help at all. In fact it's bad for the teeth like apollo said.



That said, I encourage you to experiment with it if you are willing to take the risk. But make sure before you do that you really study up on just how ineffective these kinds of devices are. Pushing on teeth does not move skull bones. Least resistance - teeth always move first. The guy in the x-ray had his dentition ruined for no skull or airway gain at all. Anyone can get a larger airway by tilting their head upward and pushing their jaw forward a bit. Look at the top of his skull and the fact that his teeth aren't touching in the after photo for proof. These devices are a joke.

But like I said feel free to try it if you want, but make sure you are fully informed before you do.

Fixed Anterior Growth Guidance Appliance (FAGGA) - Holy Grai...

I came across this: This seems like a miracle appliance, so what is the catch? If it moves the maxilla forward, does it mean the whole midface incl...

the-great-work.org

 

[SayNoToRotting]

why should there be any difference between fagga and mewing

the principle is the same except that fagga is way stronger

No.

All that FAGGA does is stretch the alveodar bone in the maxila. That's why spaces in between the teeth form, because the appliance can't generate upards and forewards pulling from the back of the mouth, like the tongue can.

It's a closed system that only pulls the bone between the attached joints, whereas the tongue is an open system that has its attatchment point somewhere below the throat.

That's also the reason why the mandible doesn't follow the maxilla growth in FAGGA. There is no pressure on it.



And yes-expansion is going on, but it's mostly just the teeth in the alveodar bone that get spread apart. The maxilla can't catch up.

The tongue in mewing doesn't directly press against the teeth so the maxilla has time to expand along with the teeth, nothing too fast and invasive.

 

[im_still_here]

No.

All that FAGGA does is stretch the alveodar bone in the maxila. That's why spaces in between the teeth form, because the appliance can't generate upards and forewards pulling from the back of the mouth, like the tongue can.

It's a closed system that only pulls the bone between the attached joints, whereas the tongue is an open system that has its attatchment point somewhere below the throat.

That's also the reason why the mandible doesn't follow the maxilla growth in FAGGA. There is no pressure on it.



And yes-expansion is going on, but it's mostly just the teeth in the alveodar bone that get spread apart. The maxilla can't catch up.

The tongue in mewing doesn't directly press against the teeth so the maxilla has time to expand along with the teeth, nothing too fast and invasive.

how does this tongue put pressure on the mandible tbh

are you sure youre not entering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance territory?

you want to believe dont you

interesting nontheless

 

[SayNoToRotting]

how does this tongue put pressure on the mandible tbh

are you sure youre not entering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance territory?

you want to believe dont you

interesting nontheless

With "closed system" I meant this:

All of the "foreward growth" happens where the front teeth get pulled away from the molars (green arrows).

The molars and jaw joint do not get pulled foreward, they remain at the same spot. because that's where the appliance ends.

The tongue doen't spread apart the bones, because there are no two attatchments to the maxilla (which includes the jaw joint). The teeth do not get separated, they all follow the push direction of the tonge, and so does the jaw joint and thus the mandible.

 

[im_still_here]

https://looksmax.org/threads/reminder-that-f-agga-is-a-scam-and-ruins-the-jaw-joints-its-over.32538/

its over

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

good results imho

what is this?

 

[Deleted member 3702]

Lefort it hurts

 

[Brandon10]

What are you trying to do here, compare literal pseudoscience that only popular in PSL sites with an actual operation that is performed for almost 1.5 century and is well documented to correct skeletal deformities and eliminate functional issues?

 

[n33tf1f]

gonna start saying “just lefort yourself” instead of “kill yourself” now


jlys, faggots.

 

[DianabolDownie]

gonna start saying “just lefort yourself” instead of “kill yourself” now


jlys, faggots.

just lefort yourself faggot

 

[betamanlet]

notice how mewing and agga only affect the alveolar ridge (lower part of the maxilla) while lefort 1 affects big parts of the maxilla

TBH the alveolar process extends almost to the LF1 cut area.

 

[thecel]

dangerous

LeFort 2 and 3 are dangerous and rarely performed, but LeFort 1 is just jaw surgery

 

[yorker12]

SARPE, they split the maxilla in a 2 piece Le Fort fashion and put in an expander(preferably bone borne or bone/teeth borne)

You get:
wider smile,

more horizontal advancement than a Le Fort,

since the stuture is cut, you can hard mew for ccw rotation(The changes are huge for me, proven by how my nose now sits, its more upwards angled and I can finnaly breathe freerly nasally),

Not as good of midface/zygo expansion than from mse, but SARPE may be for better aesthetic results overall (I can try to find you the studies),

mandible autorotation (his is huge, because of the new occlusion, your new bite can be more similar to you jutting and it staying there permanently

Less surgically intensive as a full Le Fort, but more surgically intensive than MSE.