[Blackpill] Natty lifting is a waste of time and money

fobos

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I'm gonna copy this from a blackpilled redditor :forcedsmile:

By staying natural, you:

  • Will never have an impressive physique. You will always be shredded-DYL or Big-Fat. Unless you have a ridiculously good frame, you will never look like you lift in a shirt.
  • Your test levels will be much lower than test users, therefore, putting you on a disadvantage in the dating scene, especially if you're in your 20's. You will never be sexier and fuck better than a juicer.
  • Your general well-being will be much lower than juicers. Higher test = better mood = more productive = happier life.
  • With the days of IG fitness models and Hollywood actors hopping on IFBB dosages, the days of natty bodybuilding are gone. The other day I was with a group of friends and this natty bodybuilding guy started talking about how he has been working out ever since he's 13 and he hasn't missed a week and how he doesn't drink alcohol and all the natty yada yada, only to be countered by a girl with "then how come you don't look like Chris Hemsworth?". That's the reality. Non-lifting people don't give a crap about natty-or-not. Natty or juice we are both on the same playing field for the normies.
  • Even if you make impressive natty gains, you will lose most of them by the time you reach 30 as your test levels will start dropping.
Conclusion: If you diet, put in the hours at the gym, and sacrifice good food and booze in the pursue of natty gains, then you're an idiot.

I fully agree. I've never seen an impressive natty irl. Those that look kinda big have worked out for years and spent hundreds. The only cope is if you find lifting heavy objects fun.

Meanwhile bluepilled comments:

Imagine thinking being reliant on steroids is more important than personality, wealth, or character when getting girls lol

I don't know dude but most girls, the better ones, don't like the roid physiques. Girls fucking admire my body especially at like 10%.

Confidence is more important than your Test levels when it comes to dating, and sex actually.
 
Krezo

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Body is cope and face is everything. All lifting is a waste of time if you are sub 7 PSL. Guy on the left would get way more slays than the gymceller roider on the right.
44355
 
fobos

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Body is cope and face is everything. All lifting is a waste of time if you are sub 7 PSL. Guy on the left would get way more slays than the gymceller roider on the right.
View attachment 44355
Nice cherypicking bro. Male model on the left and ugly middle aged guy on the right.

I'd say face is 90% and body is 10% and this theard is about body
 
kobecel

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countered by a girl with "then how come you don't look like Chris Hemsworth?"
Literal Toilet IQ

Just be a male model bro
Body is cope and face is everything. All lifting is a waste of time if you are sub 7 PSL. Guy on the left would get way more slays than the gymceller roider on the right.
View attachment 44355
 
Krezo

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Nice cherypicking bro. Male model on the left and ugly middle aged guy on the right.

I'd say face is 90% and body is 10% and this theard is about body
Sure but the point still stands that having a good body does not automatically get you laid. Both natty and roiding is cope. There's no point in lifting if you are sub below Chadlite level in looks. Your face will failo you hard.
 
fobos

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Sure but the point still stands that having a good body does not automatically get you laid. Both natty and roiding is cope. There's no point in lifting if you are sub below Chadlite level in looks. Your face will failo you hard.
Cope. @kobecel just posted a good link. Even @Deltoid manlet is slaying due to his body
 
KrissKross

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Fuark those bluepilled comments nearly killed me. Cage tbh
 
x30001

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WTF, still go to the gym and lift and exercise and eat healthy you shortcutting instangratificationcel POS. Hop on Tren and cope. You don't need to take roids to benefit from going to the gym. FFS
 
fobos

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WTF, still go to the gym and lift and exercise and eat healthy you shortcutting instangratificationcel POS. Hop on Tren and cope. You don't need to take roids to benefit from going to the gym. FFS
Idc about your health benefits nigga I'm talkin about looks
 
C

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What about the side effects of roiding such as hair loss? They'd make you more subhuman than you were before.
If I get a bit more shoulder width and defined muscles with natty lifting I'm happy tbh. If my genes are too bad to build muscle natty I'll take some roids maybe. I don't have the goal to look HUGE anyways.
 
freakofnature

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cope. there's a lot of ppl whos genetically incapable of building impressive physique natty over time, but this isnt everyone and its not like only a select few can. a lot of people benefits still a lot from natty gymming, its just to a varying degree. are you fucking saying an average framed, average height, average testosterone, average androgen receptor density, average metabolism person doesn't benefit from going to the gym say 5 times a week and only supplementing protein(not a lot of money)? end the copes
 
Krezo

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Cope. @kobecel just posted a good link. Even @Deltoid manlet is slaying due to his body
'Why the long face jfl' Also that guy isn't 0.5 and you can't even see his face properly. I'm sure if any of those girls met him in real life (it's easy to fraud pics) they would not fuck.
 
fobos

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cope. there's a lot of ppl whos genetically incapable of building impressive physique natty over time, but this isnt everyone and its not like only a select few can. a lot of people benefits still a lot from natty gymming, its just to a varying degree. are you fucking saying an average framed, average height, average testosterone, average androgen receptor density, average metabolism person doesn't benefit from going to the gym say 5 times a week and only supplementing protein(not a lot of money)? end the copes
That's not enough to slay in 2019
 
freakofnature

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That's not enough to slay in 2019
well yes, most people here will never slay no matter what, that doesnt change the fact everyone with average genetics or above wouldn't benefit natty gymming for their looks and dating success. thats the goal isnt it? being better with women
 
x30001

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Idc about your health benefits nigga I'm talkin about looks
Then lose weight. I put on muscle pretty easily and have a very good frame. For me, I just need to lose a lot of fat. As I said before, with roids you just need 1 cycle, Test P & Turinabol 14 weeks. You can avoid practically all side effects that way and build muscle that doesn't look like you're a gear user. Can also use non AAS drugs to max out your physique whist not ageing your face or causing hairloss and acne. Diet and training are still the foundation for physique maxing not just health. If you have a shit diet and train like shit then there's no hope. You can't shortcutmax with roids, you still need to do everything else correctly that a natty lifter would do. The roids and drugs just help usurp the boundaries for muscularity and condition which you wouldn't be able to achieve and maintain if natty.
 
fobos

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well yes, most people here will never slay no matter what, that doesnt change the fact everyone with average genetics or above wouldn't benefit natty gymming for their looks and dating success. thats the goal isnt it? being better with women
You will never be better than women. You are one swipe away from being forgotten.

Then lose weight. I put on muscle pretty easily and have a very good frame. For me, I just need to lose a lot of fat. As I said before, with roids you just need 1 cycle, Test P & Turinabol 14 weeks. You can avoid practically all side effects that way and build muscle that doesn't look like you're a gear user. Can also use non AAS drugs to max out your physique whist not ageing your face or causing hairloss and acne. Diet and training are still the foundation for physique maxing not just health. If you have a shit diet and train like shit then there's no hope. You can't shortcutmax with roids, you still need to do everything else correctly that a natty lifter would do. The roids and drugs just help usurp the boundaries for muscularity and condition which you wouldn't be able to achieve and maintain if natty.
I never said you don't need a proper diet and training.
 
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You will never be better than women. You are one swipe away from being forgotten.


I never said you don't need a proper diet and training.
In some cases you don't need roids if you aren't an ectomorph. Depends on your myostatin levels. A lot of people get away with using clen and other non AAS drugs. At some stage I'll make a thread on the perfect "looksmaxing" cycle taking everything into perspective and not sabotaging facial looks for more muscle gain. There's so many issues with people who don't use roids very very delicately. They're just doing themselves a disservice. Been studying roids and other PEDs and all their effects pretty much since late 2014.
 
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In some cases you don't need roids if you aren't an ectomorph. Depends on your myostatin levels. A lot of people get away with using clen and other non AAS drugs. At some stage I'll make a thread on the perfect "looksmaxing" cycle taking everything into perspective and not sabotaging facial looks for more muscle gain. There's so many issues with people who don't use roids very very delicately. They're just doing themselves a disservice. Been studying roids and other PEDs and all their effects pretty much since late 2014.
Do it asap nigga I'd inject rn if it wasn't for hair loss. But I'm guessing finasteride is the only way to avoid that while on steroids
 
x30001

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Do it asap nigga I'd inject rn if it wasn't for hair loss. But I'm guessing finasteride is the only way to avoid that while on steroids
Nah. Test P and Turinabol with other hairloss prevention drugs in place won't cause hairloss but if you're not norwood0 then you know you're predisposed to MPB and any androgens will accelerate the process. Finasteride on cycle is pretty stupid and I think RU58841 is better than Fina in every way. Turinabol has an androgenic rating of 6. Trenbolone has an androgenic rating of 500. High DHT doesn't just cause accelerated MPB, High Testosterone does it too. So blocking 5-Alpha-Reductase throughout your whole body with Fina isn't practical. RU will block 5AR systemically when applied topically to the scalp so that's why it is so much better. Still waiting for @ExtraChromosome to make a thread on GHK-cu because I've heard him claim it has hair sparing properties and sounds promising. If you're not nw0, you're going to continue balding anyway and there's nothing to stop that, roids will speed up the rate of balding, but you'll eventually travel through the norwood ranks as you age. You can take high dose dutasteride everyday for the rest of your life and ALMOST stop the MPB process in its tracks, but doing that will KILL you in other areas and immasculate you and even increase the risk for gyno! I'm not a fan of finasteride or dutasteride, they're 5AR inhibitors but also pretty moderate anti-androgens. If you're balding just don't take roids. You'll speed up your MPB in return for a bit of extra muscle mass and worse skin which won't even be keepable once you come off cycle (depending on your cycle). Messing with your endocrine system is no joke.
 
fobos

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Nah. Test P and Turinabol with other hairloss prevention drugs in place won't cause hairloss but if you're not norwood0 then you know you're predisposed to MPB and any androgens will accelerate the process. Finasteride on cycle is pretty stupid and I think RU58841 is better than Fina in every way. Turinabol has an androgenic rating of 6. Trenbolone has an androgenic rating of 500. High DHT doesn't just cause accelerated MPB, High Testosterone does it too. So blocking 5-Alpha-Reductase throughout your whole body with Fina isn't practical. RU will block 5AR systemically when applied topically to the scalp so that's why it is so much better. Still waiting for @ExtraChromosome to make a thread on GHK-cu because I've heard him claim it has hair sparing properties and sounds promising. If you're not nw0, you're going to continue balding anyway and there's nothing to stop that, roids will speed up the rate of balding, but you'll eventually travel through the norwood ranks as you age. You can take high dose dutasteride everyday for the rest of your life and ALMOST stop the MPB process in its tracks, but doing that will KILL you in other areas and immasculate you and even increase the risk for gyno! I'm not a fan of finasteride or dutasteride, they're 5AR inhibitors but also pretty moderate anti-androgens. If you're balding just don't take roids. You'll speed up your MPB in return for a bit of extra muscle mass and worse skin which won't even be keepable once you come off cycle (depending on your cycle). Messing with your endocrine system is no joke.
What's your take on SARMS
 
x30001

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What's your take on SARMS
They're bullshit and not marketed as what they're claimed to be. They still cause HTPA shutdown. They're selective androgen receptor modulators, and the androgenic side of "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids" is the side that creates all the unwanted effects. If we could take something anabolic that has no androgenicity then that would be perfect. Enhanced Athlete and co try to plant the false narrative into people's heads that SARMS are like steroids without the side effects. But in reality, they have side effects, they modulate androgen receptors in a fashion that promotes anabolic growth, hence, forcing your body to increase its androgens. People are misconstrued and seem to be under the impression that SARMS are anabolic but not androgenic, but that's just wrong. SARMS are so much weaker than steroids. They're marketed so they can be sold but they're a pile of garbage. No real laws surrounding their prohibition yet so that's why SARMS companies are lying so they can milk the SARM cashcow dry until some law is placed on them. People say that usually the illegal stuff works better, and that's true in this case too. SARMS are far less effective than roids, they still can cause acne, gyno and hairloss, and DO cause HPTA shutdown and muscle building results are terrible. Some SARMS aren't even SARMS, they'll just be something like Dehydroepiandrosterone packaged as LGD-4033 or something similar. People marketing SARMS and saying they're amazing, here's my results etc etc are just fraudsters. They'll just take real roids and say the results came from SARMS. Steroids don't need to be marketed because they WORK. SARMS have been pushed for 3-4 years now and are still PUSHED like mad. There's been no consensus among SARM users that they are actually an alternative to roids. If they were a working alternative, then things will have already been demystified and the FDA will already be working on a crackdown. The reason you don't see people saying "SARM companies are a scam", (even though you do see that from time to time) is because people are usually hired by SARM companies to promote the product for more sales.
 
fobos

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They're bullshit and not marketed as what they're claimed to be. They still cause HTPA shutdown. They're selective androgen receptor modulators, and the androgenic side of "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids" is the side that creates all the unwanted effects. If we could take something anabolic that has no androgenicity then that would be perfect. Enhanced Athlete and co try to plant the false narrative into people's heads that SARMS are like steroids without the side effects. But in reality, they have side effects, they modulate androgen receptors in a fashion that promotes anabolic growth, hence, forcing your body to increase its androgens. People are misconstrued and seem to be under the impression that SARMS are anabolic but not androgenic, but that's just wrong. SARMS are so much weaker than steroids. They're marketed so they can be sold but they're a pile of garbage. No real laws surrounding their prohibition yet so that's why SARMS companies are lying so they can milk the SARM cashcow dry until some law is placed on them. People say that usually the illegal stuff works better, and that's true in this case too. SARMS are far less effective than roids, they still can cause acne, gyno and hairloss, and DO cause HPTA shutdown and muscle building results are terrible. Some SARMS aren't even SARMS, they'll just be something like Dehydroepiandrosterone packaged as LGD-4033 or something similar. People marketing SARMS and saying they're amazing, here's my results etc etc are just fraudsters. They'll just take real roids and say the results came from SARMS. Steroids don't need to be marketed because they WORK. SARMS have been pushed for 3-4 years now and are still PUSHED like mad. There's been no consensus among SARM users that they are actually an alternative to roids. If they were a working alternative, then things will have already been demystified and the FDA will already be working on a crackdown. The reason you don't see people saying "SARM companies are a scam", (even though you do see that from time to time) is because people are usually hired by SARM companies to promote the product for more sales.
I wanted to run a 8 weeks LGD cycle since it's cheap as well but I don't want to shut down my t :(
 
x30001

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I wanted to run a 8 weeks LGD cycle since it's cheap as well but I don't want to shut down my t :(
1. Make sure your lean enough to the point where you feel like: "Okay I'm very lean, but now my problem is that I look too skinny." That's the only time you should consider hopping on steroids. 10% body fat or around that is okay, and make sure you actually have been going to the gym and made all your noob gains prior to getting lean. (I understand you'll lose some muscle while getting lean and losing fat, but muscle memory will be advantageous when starting a cycle.)

2. Then start the most delicate cycle possible, and keep everything in check. Diet, training, sleep, macros, exercise.

If you ever saw that U.K documentary about steroids where they say steroids make you push your body further; that's pretty much true. You should always be training with max effort but make sure you notice that you can train past plateaus while on cycle.

Only cycle I'd recommend is test p and t-bol, taking aromasin before pinning the test and researching when the aromasin reaches peak plasma levels in your system (which is about 2 hours and 54 minutes after consumption, with about a 24 hour half life). So literally pin your test p 2 hours and 54 minutes after taking the aromasin. I know it's OCD but it's what's most optimal. Taking the aromasin before pinning is important because you're ensuring that you're not going to allow ANY testosterone convert to estrogen.

Get really lean before hopping on cycle though or things will backfire.
1. Make sure your lean enough to the point where you feel like: "Okay I'm very lean, but now my problem is that I look too skinny." That's the only time you should consider hopping on steroids. 10% body fat or around that is okay, and make sure you actually have been going to the gym and made all your noob gains prior to getting lean. (I understand you'll lose some muscle while getting lean and losing fat, but muscle memory will be advantageous when starting a cycle.)

2. Then start the most delicate cycle possible, and keep everything in check. Diet, training, sleep, macros, exercise.

If you ever saw that U.K documentary about steroids where they say steroids make you push your body further; that's pretty much true. You should always be training with max effort but make sure you notice that you can train past plateaus while on cycle.

Only cycle I'd recommend is test p and t-bol, taking aromasin before pinning the test and researching when the aromasin reaches peak plasma levels in your system (which is about 2 hours and 54 minutes after consumption, with about a 24 hour half life). So literally pin your test p 2 hours and 54 minutes after taking the aromasin. I know it's OCD but it's what's most optimal. Taking the aromasin before pinning is important because you're ensuring that you're not going to allow ANY testosterone convert to estrogen.

Get really lean before hopping on cycle though or things will backfire.
And forget the LGD-4033 garbage. I'm interested in SR-9009 and GW-501516 too but don't know enough about them yet. SR-9009 sounds really promising but has basically no bioavailability from what I hear.
 
androidcel

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Cope. @kobecel just posted a good link. Even @Deltoid manlet is slaying due to his body
@Deltoid has above average face, he wouldn't slay if he would have below average face even with his current body.
 
Rimcel

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1. Make sure your lean enough to the point where you feel like: "Okay I'm very lean, but now my problem is that I look too skinny." That's the only time you should consider hopping on steroids. 10% body fat or around that is okay, and make sure you actually have been going to the gym and made all your noob gains prior to getting lean. (I understand you'll lose some muscle while getting lean and losing fat, but muscle memory will be advantageous when starting a cycle.)

2. Then start the most delicate cycle possible, and keep everything in check. Diet, training, sleep, macros, exercise.

If you ever saw that U.K documentary about steroids where they say steroids make you push your body further; that's pretty much true. You should always be training with max effort but make sure you notice that you can train past plateaus while on cycle.

Only cycle I'd recommend is test p and t-bol, taking aromasin before pinning the test and researching when the aromasin reaches peak plasma levels in your system (which is about 2 hours and 54 minutes after consumption, with about a 24 hour half life). So literally pin your test p 2 hours and 54 minutes after taking the aromasin. I know it's OCD but it's what's most optimal. Taking the aromasin before pinning is important because you're ensuring that you're not going to allow ANY testosterone convert to estrogen.

Get really lean before hopping on cycle though or things will backfire.

And forget the LGD-4033 garbage. I'm interested in SR-9009 and GW-501516 too but don't know enough about them yet. SR-9009 sounds really promising but has basically no bioavailability from what I hear.
Why test p and not e? I thought p is used only on cutting cycles
 
x30001

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Why test p and not e? I thought p is used only on cutting cycles
You can control everything a lot better with P since it's a short ester. There's no difference between esters besides how long they last in your system. Using propianate delicately while inhibiting aromatase gives you the best chances that none of your test converts to estrogen.

Propianate also has 83mg per 100mg whilst cyp and enth are in the low 70s. Prop has a higher molecular weight but that's neither here nor there. Prop is better because you can control everything a lot easier and mitigate sides. If you're really against pinning EOD then go with enanthate.

In a few weeks I'll post my guide. Maybe sooner.
 
Zeta ascended

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I wanted to run a 8 weeks LGD cycle since it's cheap as well but I don't want to shut down my t :(
Yeah I read alot about LGD and it does cause a suppression in test levels and you need pct for it. But it's worth it with 2-3 cycles I can put on 10-15 more pounds than if I were natty gymcelling.
 
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Yeah I read alot about LGD and it does cause a suppression in test levels and you need pct for it. But it's worth it with 2-3 cycles I can put on 10-15 more pounds than if I were natty gymcelling.
Yeah but it's just not the most optimal choice. There's better options with less sides, or roughly the same, with far far better effects.
 
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Yeah I read alot about LGD and it does cause a suppression in test levels and you need pct for it. But it's worth it with 2-3 cycles I can put on 10-15 more pounds than if I were natty gymcelling.
I read that you probably don't even need PCT unless youre doing more that 8 weeks higher doses.
 
x30001

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I read that you probably don't even need PCT unless youre doing more that 8 weeks higher doses.
Taking PCT is probably the best thing to do. Even better thing to do is not take LGD in the first place!
 
Rimcel

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You can control everything a lot better with P since it's a short ester. There's no difference between esters besides how long they last in your system. Using propianate delicately while inhibiting aromatase gives you the best chances that none of your test converts to estrogen.

Propianate also has 83mg per 100mg whilst cyp and enth are in the low 70s. Prop has a higher molecular weight but that's neither here nor there. Prop is better because you can control everything a lot easier and mitigate sides. If you're really against pinning EOD then go with enanthate.

In a few weeks I'll post my guide. Maybe sooner.
Thanks for the explanation. But if u block completely estrogen conversion you will have literally zero e2 in your system. That is not really great
 
fobos

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Taking PCT is probably the best thing to do. Even better thing to do is not take LGD in the first place!
pct comes with side effects as well don't forget
 
Zeta ascended

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Yeah but it's just not the most optimal choice. There's better options with less sides, or roughly the same, with far far better effects.
lgd just happened to be the one I researched. Ill look into the other sarms, Hell I am even hop into a cycle of test if I can reclaim my hairline.
I read that you probably don't even need PCT unless youre doing more that 8 weeks higher doses.
It will still suppress you. Once you stop lgd your cortisol will be at a all time high and your test levels will drop. You don't want to lose all those gains. You don't need a full pct tho
 
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lgd just happened to be the one I researched. Ill look into the other sarms, Hell I am even hop into a cycle of test if I can reclaim my hairline.

It will still suppress you. Once you stop lgd your cortisol will be at a all time high and your test levels will drop. You don't want to lose all those gains. You don't need a full pct tho
Still debating is it even worth trying
 
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I'll drop my thread as soon as possible. :):redpill::redpill::blackpill::chad:
None of these looksmaxed ascended Chads or male models or 7psl+ guys use LGD-4033. Take enhanced athlete and coach Trevor with a grain of salt. He knows his shit but he has to exaggerate the benefits and understate the drawbacks of these SARMS because as a company their bottom line is to sell as much of them as possible. Targeting 17-30yo men as their consumer base.
 
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TeaGuy

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If you to use roids to get a physique that's attractive to foids you admitted to yourself that you are genetic failure.
You don't need to look like a pro bodybuilder to attract girls, the optimal physique is easily obtainable natty given that you have decent genetics.
Have fun with hairloss and other sideffects.
 
DankForce1

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Idc about your health benefits nigga I'm talkin about looks
Dude gym is beneficial for looks regardless of roids. Decreases bloat, puts you in a better mental state, etc. The reason looks exist at all is to judge the health and fitness of a mate. While sure, it is mostly genetic, if you want to look healthy, of course you actually have to BE healthy.

At the end of the day it's up to you and I'm not trying to convince you, just stating facts.
 
androidcel

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muh lifting routine muh roid cycle muh bulking meal
 
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whether you think natty lifting is a joke, roiding is even worse for overall looksmaxing - long term
 
ZUZZCEL

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whether you think natty lifting is a joke, roiding is even worse for overall looksmaxing - long term
roids can increase collagen if used properly and aid in anti aging, they also make your skull bigger. and obvisouly add muscle mass.

they also improve mood and libido insanely.
 
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roids can increase collagen if used properly and aid in anti aging, they also make your skull bigger. and obvisouly add muscle mass.

they also improve mood and libido insanely.
And mewing can cure cancer
 

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