Proving MSE provides little to no IPD increase in Adults.

Golden Glass

Golden Glass

Just want to help my fellow man look better.
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This is Ronald Ead’s MSE before and after.

Just copy and paste this imgur link and play the video:

https://imgur.com/a/5mDdnko

Four key takeaways:
1. MSE in adults does not increase IPD
(and if it ever did, it would be maybe a mm max).

2. MSE will noticeably increase mouth width.

3. MSE will noticeably increase nasal base width

4. MSE can expand asymmetrically
; Ronald claims one a video that his palate’s left side expanded more than his right, and this is evident in the before and after superimposition: just look at the mouth and nose width increase in his left side (the viewer’s right) vs his right side ( the viewer’s left). This is important to keep in mind while you are expanding, so you don’t end up with asymmetries; it could also potentially be used to fix asymmetries. It’s a shame that with MSE, Ronald seems to have made his face slightly asymmetrical, though this can be avoided.


You might notice that his jaw width decreased, but this was likely due to him having stopped chewing
, as in videos he said anything involving his mouth was incredibly painful during MSE (I recall he mentioned somewhere that he did chewing while doing AGGA). He could also be clenching in the before and not clenching in the after. HOWEVER, I personally think he looks better in the after because his jaw was too wide compared to his zygos in the before.
 
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finally the truth
 
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Holy fuck at that fwhr improvement @Gudru
 
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Holy fuck at that fwhr improvement @Gudru
We can both make it brother. I saw your pics a while ago.

Also OP are you sure there's minimal lens distortion?
 
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We can both make it brother. I saw your pics a while ago.

Also OP are you sure there's minimal lens distortion?
Gudru = Bro :love:
 
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Holy fuck at that fwhr improvement @Gudru

To be perfectly honest, his FWHR only looks like it improved because he’s raising his eyebrows in the after. I doubt there was significant, in real life, change.
 
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To be perfectly honest, his FWHR only looks like it improved because he’s raising his eyebrows in the after. I doubt there was significant, in real life, change.
I mean his midface got wider
 
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There is no hope, only rope.
 
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Also OP are you sure there's minimal lens distortion?

I remember reading Ronald claiming there wasn’t; same camera, same distance.

There could be slight lens distortion (which would explain the difference in ear location) HOWEVER, if this were the case, since the ears are “wider” in the after, the Lens distortion in the after would have made his IPD look wider, and yet they look the same.

I had also done this kind of before and after with a case study from an MSE medical article, where they try to be as professional as possible with their photo’s, and the result was the same: Wider mouth, Wider nose, Same IPD. I lost that one though when my computer broke down so I just made this one
 
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I remember reading Ronald claiming there wasn’t; same camera, same distance.

There could be slight lens distortion (which would explain the difference in ear location) HOWEVER, if this were the case, since the ears are “wider” in the after, the Lens distortion in the after would have made his IPD look wider, and yet they look the same.

I had also done this kind of before and after with a case study from an MSE medical article, where they try to be as professional as possible with their photo’s, and the result was the same: Wider mouth, Wider nose, Same IPD. I lost that one though when my computer broke down so I just made this one
Alright. But at what stage was the before pic made? I'm pretty sure ronald's palate was already expanded a shit ton before MSE
 
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To be perfectly honest, his FWHR only looks like it improved because he’s raising his eyebrows in the after. I doubt there was significant, in real life, change.
I mean his midface got wider
Tbh to see if his fwhr improved i recommend to look at pics after AGGA but before MSE and then after both. On first one you can clearly see that his jaw was way wider than rest face, on the second its almost balanced. Tbh i dont think there was much improvement but like 1.5-2mm on each side so like 3-4mm in total.
So lets take Brad Pitt measurments (1.90 fwhr - around 135mm facial width/ 71mm brow-lip lenght) and increase facial width about 4mm so 139mm/71mm = almost 1.96.
 
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And what would you imagine the effects to be like at 17?
 
Alright. But at what stage was the before pic made? I'm pretty sure ronald's palate was already expanded a shit ton before MSE

If his palate was *expanded* at all before MSE, it would have been through AGGA (I don’t even remember AGGA being used to expand the palate, only to try to create forward growth) or Mewing.

And, if we assume his palate did expand at all with AGGA and/or mewing, AGGA/mewing is so localized that it would have produced even less change in IPD (AGGA’s not bone borne like MSE, so there’s no reason to assume it can increase IPD, while MSE can’t)
 
If his palate was *expanded* at all before MSE, it would have been through AGGA (I don’t even remember AGGA being used to expand the palate, only to try to create forward growth) or Mewing.

And, if we assume his palate did expand at all with AGGA and/or mewing, AGGA/mewing is so localized that it would have produced even less change in IPD (AGGA’s not bone borne like MSE, so there’s no reason to assume it can increase IPD, while MSE can’t)

Look at his palate, looks pretty expanded to me
 
And what would you imagine the effects to be like at 17?

Probably more drastic midface and zygo expansion...no idea about IPD but I wouldn’t get my hopes up.

Look at his palate, looks pretty expanded to me

Got it; point still stands; that palate expansion is nowhere near comparable to expansion through implants drilled into your palate and midface.
 
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Probably more drastic midface and zygo expansion...no idea about IPD but I wouldn’t get my hopes up.


Got it; point still stands; that palate expansion is nowhere near comparable to expansion through implants drilled into your palate and midface.
Yeah true. Might be cope but I feel like considering how narrow my palate is right now (You've seen my pics) it might be more drastic, idk. Ah well.
 
Yeah true. Might be cope but I feel like considering how narrow my palate is right now (You've seen my pics) it might be more drastic, idk. Ah well.

Whats your IPD?
 
No idea. Slightly below average I guess

Okay I ask because you asked about how Lens distortion and previous palatal expansion may have made his IPD here seem without change, or were you never referring to IPD?
 
Okay I ask because you asked about how Lens distortion and previous palatal expansion may have made his IPD here seem without change, or were you never referring to IPD?
Not precisely but yeah that's what I thought
 
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Not precisely but yeah that's what I thought

Have you ever read on jawsurgeryforums the post claiming that Dr. Douglas Sinn can do a procedure that can increase IPD a few mm?
 
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That's hope for me.
 
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Have you ever read on jawsurgeryforums the post claiming that Dr. Douglas Sinn can do a procedure that can increase IPD a few mm?
Oh wow, never heard of it before. What's the procedure called and what are the costs?
 
Have you ever read on jawsurgeryforums the post claiming that Dr. Douglas Sinn can do a procedure that can increase IPD a few mm?

From my understanding this osteotomy will increase only PFL
 
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Oh wow, never heard of it before. What's the procedure called and what are the costs?
Orbital Box Osteotomy.

D90F2BE4 524F 4D3C A019 F89776C0AFA4
 
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If you read the post, I believe Sinn says he could slightly rearrange the eyeballs as well.


No I’m not talking about OBO
Tbh bro, are you sure about going under knife with Dr. Sinn? Especially in eye areas, he is very old now and has bunch of complications like nerve damages after bimax etc.
 
Tbh bro, are you sure about going under knife with Dr. Sinn? Especially in eye areas, he is very old now and has bunch of complications like nerve damages after bimax etc.

Lmao I’m not sure about Dr Sinn himself tbh, it was just to illustrate the fact that he’s described a combination of procedures where you could theoretically increase IPD.

Are there a lot of complaints? Regarding nerve damage, unfortunately that’s something even the very best jaw surgeons will eventually be guilty of, in at least a number of cases.
 
If you read the post, I believe Sinn says he could slightly rearrange the eyeballs as well.

yeah, I see that the guy mentioned IPD but he didn't specify which procedure is supposed to move the eyeballs laterally in the transverse plane. See kavans response below.
 
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yeah, I see that the guy mentioned IPD but he didn't specify which procedure is supposed to move the eyeballs laterally in the transverse plane. See kavans response below.

Kavan doesn’t seem like he was responding to the procedures in their entirety, for example he doesn’t mention the procedure that would effect orbital volume (and presumably change IPD) at all in his response. It’s a shame the poster who mentioned talking to various authors to try to get a clear answer never updated that thread.
 
The "after" one is actually after AGGA, I have seen this photo long before he even started MSE treatment.
 
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The "after" one is actually after AGGA, I have seen this photo long before he even started MSE treatment.

You might actually be right. I just used those because those were the ones provided in a “Ronald Ead before and after MSE” thread here. I’ll check, and if that’s the case I’ll make a version with his actual MSE pictures
 
Here is his blog post with before/afters after completing MSE:
 
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Here is his blog post with before/afters after completing MSE:

Okay I’ll update the thread in a bit
Okay I’ll update the thread in a bit

Holy shit these pictures are perfect. Absolutely zero lens distortion. I was very surprised when I made the original before and after at the negligible change in nose width, but here the difference is insane.

Ronald made sure make everything line up perfectly. I didn’t have to do any changes myself.

I also love the fact he didn’t “fraud” or make any different facial expressions in either photo.

The new before and after will be posted in a few minutes.
Ok I updated the original post, as well as wrote some takeaways



The original post is updated, also added some new takeaways.
 
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Ronald said that he used the eyes as a reference point when calibrating the images so his IPD should be the exact same amount of pixels in both pics regardless of any actual change. It's clear that his nose and mouth width increased significantly and IPD didn't keep up with that. Still not sure if IPD changed at all.
 
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Ronald said that he used the eyes as a reference point when calibrating the images so his IPD should be the exact same amount of pixels in both pics regardless of any actual change. It's clear that his nose and mouth width increased significantly and IPD didn't keep up with that. Still not sure if IPD changed at all.

But the irises are exactly the same size. If they’re the same size, and both irises overlap perfectly in the before and after, while mouth and nose don’t, and there’s no difference in lens or distance, then I don’t see how that can be explained with anything other than: His IPD didn’t change.
 
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But the irises are exactly the same size. If they’re the same size, and both irises overlap perfectly in the before and after, while mouth and nose don’t, and there’s no difference in lens or distance, then I don’t see how that can be explained with anything other than: His IPD didn’t change.
Yes, I believe you're right.
 
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holy shit at mse its litearlly lifefuel so much
 
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holy shit at mse its litearlly lifefuel so much

Anyone who wants to significantly looksmax should have MSE literally be their step one, and then any other procedure builds off of that.
 
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Anyone who wants to significantly looksmax should have MSE literally be their step one, and then any other procedure builds off of that.
Maybe. I think Ead’s MSE experience is corrupted and useless as a template because he did AGGA first.
 
Maybe. I think Ead’s MSE experience is corrupted and useless as a template because he did AGGA first.

Makes no sense considering his mouth and nose visibly widened post AGGA
 
I thought palate expansion increase IPD. Any skeletal expansion should increase IPD
 
I thought palate expansion increase IPD. Any skeletal expansion should increase IPD

No. It makes sense that palate expansion would expand the areas closest to the palate, and extreme, bone borne palate expansion like MSE would be capable of expanding higher up the midface as well, and it is, as shown by zygo width increase in CT scans....but an IPD expander? No; the evidence hasn’t demonstrated that even MSE, the most extreme from of palatal expansion, is capable of that, in adults of course. If you’re like 15, definitely try it.
 
This is Ronald Ead’s MSE before and after.

Just copy and paste this imgur link and play the video:

https://imgur.com/a/5mDdnko

Four key takeaways:
1. MSE in adults does not increase IPD
(and if it ever did, it would be maybe a mm max).

2. MSE will noticeably increase mouth width.

3. MSE will noticeably increase nasal base width

4. MSE can expand asymmetrically
; Ronald claims one a video that his palate’s left side expanded more than his right, and this is evident in the before and after superimposition: just look at the mouth and nose width increase in his left side (the viewer’s right) vs his right side ( the viewer’s left). This is important to keep in mind while you are expanding, so you don’t end up with asymmetries; it could also potentially be used to fix asymmetries. It’s a shame that with MSE, Ronald seems to have made his face slightly asymmetrical, though this can be avoided.


You might notice that his jaw width decreased, but this was likely due to him having stopped chewing
, as in videos he said anything involving his mouth was incredibly painful during MSE (I recall he mentioned somewhere that he did chewing while doing AGGA). He could also be clenching in the before and not clenching in the after. HOWEVER, I personally think he looks better in the after because his jaw was too wide compared to his zygos in the before.
How do you avoid asymmetries when using MSE?
 
Fuck I dont think Ill be getting this because of no IPD change and nose getting wider.

I really wanna see mse results from someone who is around 17 years old, hopefully there is some ipd change
 
How does this help the jaw
 
do you know how much the mouth widened? in terms of MM
 
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