Reminder that a laterally grown, tall face is masculine and dimorphic

[LaFayette]

You described the obvious.
Wide, angular, small straight nose, high cheekbones and hunter eyes. This is literally chad.

 

[MisterMercedes]

You described the obvious.
Wide, angular, small straight nose, high cheekbones and hunter eyes. This is literally chad.

Small nose is a feminine trait, not an essential masculine trait

 

[Deleted member 685]

Yep. But that doesn't mean a narrow head is attractive either. The ideal face is both laterally grown and horizontally

 

[LaFayette]

Small nose is a feminine trait, not an essential masculine trait

I wasn't clear enough. I meant not overly long, but with straight+strong bridge.

 

[MisterMercedes]

I wasn't clear enough. I meant not overly long, but with straight+strong bridge.

Agreed. I’d say this is the ideal male nose length as it allows for a compact midface but also keeps facial thirds masculine:

 

[Deleted member 2157]

The actual line that measures his total face length is longer than O’ Pry’s.

It’s not my own criteria. It’s the standardized idea of facial thirds.

Wrong. Most adults have around the same mandible length when chin projection isn’t taken into account. Positional recession and chin projection are almost always the culprits for a “short jaw”.

It's just the angle, his forehead and lower third is visibly shorter than O'Pry's

The philtrum not being included is absolutely your own criteria

Not wrong. Short mandibles are why overbites are so common. Chins aren't recessed anywhere near as much.

 

[MisterMercedes]

It's just the angle, his forehead and lower third is visibly shorter than O'Pry's

The philtrum not being included is absolutely your own criteria

Not wrong. Short mandibles are why overbites are so common. Chins aren't recessed anywhere near as much.

Wrong. The actual line that measures his total face length is longer. Again, having a certain third be longer doesn’t mean your entire face is longer.

Wrong. The philtrum not being included is the standardized measurement of facial thirds.

Wrong. Overbites are most often caused by positional recession of the mandible, not insufficient bone length.

 

[Deleted member 8869]

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Teresa_Steele/publication/268444073_Comment_on_Craniofacial_Feminization_Social_Tolerance_and_the_Origins_of_Behavioral_Modernity/links/546b38870cf20dedafd52758.pdf

Elevated levels of circulating testosterone beginning at puberty in males, on the other hand, tend to predominately affect facial elongation and brow ridge development.

Individuals with higher adult levels of salivary testosterone tend to have superoinferiorly longer faces and more pronounced brows, with brows that are also mediolaterally expanded (with right and left sides tending toward fusing at midline)—a facial morphology that is absent in the masculinized faces of males with low 2D:4D ratios who do not have elevated levels of circulating testosterone (Schaefer et al. 2005).

In males with delayed puberty, treatment with exogenous testosterone has been found to increase upper and total facial height

View attachment 684828

Figure 1. Craniofacial feminization in Homo sapiens. The 110–90 Ka year old male specimen Skhul 5 (left) in lateral (top) and frontal (bottom) views, compared to that of a recent African male (right), showing the large brow ridges and long and narrow, masculinized face characteristic of MSA/MP-associated modern humans. Both specimens have been scaled to the same nasionbregma height and aligned on those landmarks

This doesn't disprove FWHR being dimorphic and influenced by prenatal testosterone either, as FWHR is specifically about a compact midface, not the facial length overall.

If I start injecting T at 16 would it help??

 

[Deleted member 2157]

If I start injecting T at 16 would it help??

Yeah

 

[Deleted member 2157]

Wrong. The actual line that measures his total face length is longer. Again, having a certain third be longer doesn’t mean your entire face is longer.

Wrong. The philtrum not being included is the standardized measurement of facial thirds.

Wrong. Overbites are most often caused by positional recession of the mandible, not insufficient bone length.

That's because you added a bit of length on the line. Another thing to add is that Sean is closer to the camera, though his face is still visibly longer with the asian guy having a longer midface - most asians do.

The philtrum is considered part of the midface by everybody.

The recession of the mandible is due to short mandible length. That's what an overbite is, and is why BSSO lengthens the mandible.

 

[MisterMercedes]

That's because you added a bit of length on the line. Another thing to add is that Sean is closer to the camera, though his face is still visibly longer with the asian guy having a longer midface - most asians do.

The philtrum is considered part of the midface by everybody.

The recession of the mandible is due to short mandible length. That's what an overbite is, and is why BSSO lengthens the mandible.

O’ Pry is not farther from the camera and the line is longer because his face is longer, as it ends at the bottom of his chin:

Philtrum is part of the midface but not facial thirds.

Overbite is more often corrected by positioning the mandible more forward (mandibular advancement) as it’s most often caused by positional recession, not inadequate bone length.

 

[Deleted member 2157]

O’ Pry is not farther from the camera and the line is longer because his face is longer, as it ends at the bottom of his chin:

View attachment 686135
Philtrum is part of the midface but not facial thirds.

Overbite is more often corrected by positioning the mandible more forward (mandibular advancement) as it’s most often caused by positional recession, not inadequate bone length.

Yeah, so his face would be visibly even taller in equal distances. His lower and upper thirds are visibly much taller than the asian guy's, as well as his overall entire face.

That still clearly makes it a factor to consider in face length.

Mandibular advancement IS lengthening the bone; that's what BSSO does as a surgery. It's due to the jaw body not being long enough for occlusion.

 

[MisterMercedes]

Yeah, so his face would be visibly even taller in equal distances. His lower and upper thirds are visibly much taller than the asian guy's, as well as his overall entire face.

That still clearly makes it a factor to consider in face length.

Mandibular advancement IS lengthening the bone; that's what BSSO does as a surgery. It's due to the jaw body not being long enough for occlusion.

But his face isn’t visibly taller. It’s visibly shorter as per the measurement. For the fifth time, having a certain facial third be taller doesn’t mean your entire face is taller.

Mandibular advancement is not BSSO. In mandibular advancement (happens in bimax), the jaw is moved forward in a more ideal position, but the bone is not lengthened.

 

[ASR]

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Teresa_Steele/publication/268444073_Comment_on_Craniofacial_Feminization_Social_Tolerance_and_the_Origins_of_Behavioral_Modernity/links/546b38870cf20dedafd52758.pdf

Elevated levels of circulating testosterone beginning at puberty in males, on the other hand, tend to predominately affect facial elongation and brow ridge development.

Individuals with higher adult levels of salivary testosterone tend to have superoinferiorly longer faces and more pronounced brows, with brows that are also mediolaterally expanded (with right and left sides tending toward fusing at midline)—a facial morphology that is absent in the masculinized faces of males with low 2D:4D ratios who do not have elevated levels of circulating testosterone (Schaefer et al. 2005).

In males with delayed puberty, treatment with exogenous testosterone has been found to increase upper and total facial height

View attachment 684828

Figure 1. Craniofacial feminization in Homo sapiens. The 110–90 Ka year old male specimen Skhul 5 (left) in lateral (top) and frontal (bottom) views, compared to that of a recent African male (right), showing the large brow ridges and long and narrow, masculinized face characteristic of MSA/MP-associated modern humans. Both specimens have been scaled to the same nasionbregma height and aligned on those landmarks

This doesn't disprove FWHR being dimorphic and influenced by prenatal testosterone either, as FWHR is specifically about a compact midface, not the facial length overall.

 

[weallburninhell]

t

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Teresa_Steele/publication/268444073_Comment_on_Craniofacial_Feminization_Social_Tolerance_and_the_Origins_of_Behavioral_Modernity/links/546b38870cf20dedafd52758.pdf

Elevated levels of circulating testosterone beginning at puberty in males, on the other hand, tend to predominately affect facial elongation and brow ridge development.

Individuals with higher adult levels of salivary testosterone tend to have superoinferiorly longer faces and more pronounced brows, with brows that are also mediolaterally expanded (with right and left sides tending toward fusing at midline)—a facial morphology that is absent in the masculinized faces of males with low 2D:4D ratios who do not have elevated levels of circulating testosterone (Schaefer et al. 2005).

In males with delayed puberty, treatment with exogenous testosterone has been found to increase upper and total facial height

View attachment 684828

Figure 1. Craniofacial feminization in Homo sapiens. The 110–90 Ka year old male specimen Skhul 5 (left) in lateral (top) and frontal (bottom) views, compared to that of a recent African male (right), showing the large brow ridges and long and narrow, masculinized face characteristic of MSA/MP-associated modern humans. Both specimens have been scaled to the same nasionbregma height and aligned on those landmarks

This doesn't disprove FWHR being dimorphic and influenced by prenatal testosterone either, as FWHR is specifically about a compact midface, not the facial length overall.

this is legit i have legit l

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Teresa_Steele/publication/268444073_Comment_on_Craniofacial_Feminization_Social_Tolerance_and_the_Origins_of_Behavioral_Modernity/links/546b38870cf20dedafd52758.pdf

Elevated levels of circulating testosterone beginning at puberty in males, on the other hand, tend to predominately affect facial elongation and brow ridge development.

Individuals with higher adult levels of salivary testosterone tend to have superoinferiorly longer faces and more pronounced brows, with brows that are also mediolaterally expanded (with right and left sides tending toward fusing at midline)—a facial morphology that is absent in the masculinized faces of males with low 2D:4D ratios who do not have elevated levels of circulating testosterone (Schaefer et al. 2005).

In males with delayed puberty, treatment with exogenous testosterone has been found to increase upper and total facial height

View attachment 684828

Figure 1. Craniofacial feminization in Homo sapiens. The 110–90 Ka year old male specimen Skhul 5 (left) in lateral (top) and frontal (bottom) views, compared to that of a recent African male (right), showing the large brow ridges and long and narrow, masculinized face characteristic of MSA/MP-associated modern humans. Both specimens have been scaled to the same nasionbregma height and aligned on those landmarks

This doesn't disprove FWHR being dimorphic and influenced by prenatal testosterone either, as FWHR is specifically about a compact midface, not the facial length overall.

@Gudru Well i think prenal t is corelated to low fwhr

 

[Deleted member 9670]

Tall dudes have longer faces