The Ultimate Lookmaxing Steroid Guide - Lowest Risk/Highest Reward

[x30001]

Okay here it goes. This guide is aimed to give you insight into most effective physique enhancing drugs with a HUGE emphasis on NOT speeding up MBP, getting acne, getting gyno, aging your face and permanently corrupting your endocrine system.

This protocol is only applicable once you are in the 10-12% range or below. If your not in that range, this is not for you. Lose the fat first. Your diet, training and lifestyle must be strict and in check. The aim of this cycle is not to become a mutant or even give people the impression that you've taken steroids. The aim is to add sufficient muscularity to your frame once you become lean. If you have low myostatin levels and a good frame then you might not need to follow this guide at all; your aim would be to stay lean whilst maintaining your lean muscle, which clenbuterol is perfect for.

Okay so, this guide starts when you are 10-12% body fat or less and want to add lean muscle without the sides. FORGET taking SARMS and pro-hormones. Your flaw must be that you can't put on muscle but are already lean. Maybe you have a fast metabolism, ectomorph body type and higher myostatin levels than the average.

This protocol will help you look like this

It won't help you look like this:

So now that we've gotten that out of the way. Here's how you start.

If you're Norwood0 you can take the less safe but more effective route.

Protocol:
Testosterone Enanthate: 150mg per week.
Primobolan Enanthate: 800-1000mg per week.
Aromasin: 25mg e5d [only follow this if you start experiencing nipple sensitivity on the cycle] Try 12.5mg e5d, if that's not helping then move up to 25mg e5d. You likely won't experience and nipple sensitivity] - Credit @jefferson

Duration: 12-14 weeks

The testosterone is just a replacement dose. The aim is for the primobolan to work its magic. It's a DHT steroid but is nowhere near as harsh on the hairline as other DHT steroids such as Anadrol, Superdrol, Halotestin and Winstrol. Primobolan has an anabolic rating of 88 and an androgenic rating between 44-57. Acne and hairloss is still possible but you won't notice much severity in these side effects, if they do occur at all. Primobolan low dose is considered to be 400mg per week and the average is 600-800mg, closer to 800mg. This steroid produces very dry lean gains, and in some reports lifts mood and makes skin look healthier. If you are not extra sensitive to androgens you will not experience side effects from a steroid with such a low androgenic rating. With primobolan, it's hard to tell if you're taking steroids at all and has nice harmony, bringing out the perfect amount of vascularity and lean muscle gains are slow and steady, noticeable although subtle which is a good thing. You won't hold water, in fact you'll hold less water on cycle, and may notice increases in hair quality if you don't experience shedding due to DHT sensitivity. Some non DHT steroids such as Dianabol and Trenbolone cause more hair shedding than Primobolan even though they are not DHT steroids. Since Primobolan won't be super harsh on your cholesterol and lipids, I won't include and drugs to control that. Make sure you are exercising throughout the cycle and doing cardio to keep you cardiovascular system active.

Ancillaries for hairloss and acne:
RU58841 topically on your scalp along with ketaconazole shampoo.
Have Accutane on hand in case you are extremely sensitive to the androgens.
Have Retin-A on hand also.

PCT:
Clomiphene Citrate: 100mg per day for 5 weeks.

That's it.

(Get your hormone levels checked by a doctor post cycle!)


Second approach: (If you are not Norwood0 or already expierencing balding.)

Testosterone Propianate: 100mg EOD
Turinabol (oral): 40mg week 1-6, 50mg week 6-12, 70mg week 12-14. (Take the Turinabol daily, ie: 40mg daily, week 1-6).
Aromasin: 25mg EOD before pinning the Propianate.
EDIT: Take GW-501516 at 15mg per day throughout the entire cycle and for 1 week into the 5 week PCT. Turinabol can affect your cholesterol and lipid negatively. GW-501516 is a peroxisome proliferator activated receptor modulator and possess fat burning and endurance benefits. It has also been proven to decrease LDL (bad cholesterol) and increase/sustain HDL (good cholesterol).

EDIT: Protect your liver, t-bol can affect your liver negatively. Take milk thistle, N-Acetyl-Cystene and drink lots of water. Avoid taking vitamin A and drinking alcohol. If you get severe acne from this cycle, which you very likely won't, wait til about a month after PCT to considering taking Accutane.

Take the aromasin (tablet form) roughly 3 hours before pinning. Aromasin reaches peak plasma levels after 2 hours and 54 minutes and as a half life of about 24 hours. You want to be very controlled and ensure that the Aromasin is at its peak levels when administering the propianate, ensuring no estrogen conversion or as little as possible, as 100mg EOD of Testosterone Propianate is not a low dose or replacement dose and will play more of a role in your muscle building than in the Primo cycle.

Turinabol has an androgenic rating of 6 and an anabolic rating of 54. It is known to be the only anabolic steroid designed for performancing enhancing purposes rather than medical or veterinary purposes. Designed by the Germans as a doping project to enable them to cheat in the olympic games and to pass drug tests, which they were successful doing. More information on turinabol was brought to light by the Germans in the 1990s. It's highly unlikely to see acne or hairloss on this protocol, unless you are already in the stages of balding. Even if you are sensitive to androgens, you may not experience ANY androgenic side effects. Turinabol is a modified form of testosterone that does not convert to estrogen (estradiol) or DHT.

PCT:
Clomiphene Citrate: 100mg daily for 5 weeks.
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 2000iu daily until your balls recover to normal size.

Ancillaries:
Keep all the skincare products on hand. Retin-A, Accutane too incase you react badly and experience sides which is extremely unlikely. Keep RU58841 and ketaconazole shampoo on hand too incase your MPB speeds up. If you aren't predisposed to MPB it's very unlikely that that the testosterone will make you lose hair.

Side note: Currently researching GHK-cu and it's potential benefits for hairloss prevention so that might be added in here later.

AGAIN: Don't start this cycle if you aren't 10-12% bodyfat or less.

 

[Eskimo]

Nice guide bro

But damn, never knew Ronaldo's waist was so wide and blocky ngl.

 

[x30001]

He must not be doing vaccums ?

Will add more detail to this later about RU58841 doses and shit like that. Just don't have the time right now. The turinabol route is probably the best to take for 95% of us. We don't want to go bald!

Forgot to mention, the gains from Primo and tbol are also very keepable. No other steroid compares to them when it comes to maintaining gains post cycle. Probably because they don't blow you up to superphsyiological levels which you can't sustain after. These 2 protocols are the best for looksmaxing via physique.

 

[jefferson]

Uhhh what's with the aromasin? You should not be taking any aromasin at all on this cycle. That will cause you to get bad side effects, lose hair, and get shit gains.

You don't want to crush estrogen. It doesn't work like that.

On the second approach cycle you may or may not need a very small amount of aromasin but in the first cycle you should not use any at all.

And also idk if you want to be taking tbol for 12 weeks straight.

 

[x30001]

Uhhh what's with the aromasin? You should not be taking any aromasin at all on this cycle. That will cause you to get bad side effects, lose hair, and get shit gains.

You don't want to crush estrogen. It doesn't work like that.

On the second approach cycle you may or may not need a very small amount of aromasin but in the first cycle you should not use any at all.

And also idk if you want to be taking tbol for 12 weeks straight.

I think the aromasin is necessary. Maybe 12.5mg e5d is enough for the first cycle. 12.5mg EOD for the second cycle might be enough too. But I'm just trying to be safe and don't want to risk any excess estrogen conversion that'll cause gyno. I'll be updating this thread regularly and optimising the dosages. Everyone will respond differently and may be more/less sensitive to certain androgens and I'm just trying to ensure that the side effects can be mitigated properly.

Added GW-501516 into the t-bol cycle.

 

[mesr]

Roids aren’t really needed. Your muscle growth is limited by your own bone structure so natty lifting can get you to wherever you need to be.

And you will lose hair unless running RU

This was me after one year of lifting natty. Good enough that any additional muscle doesn’t really matter to women, only other men

Really the only benefit to roids imho is if it lowers your inhibition

 

[x30001]

Roids aren’t really needed. Your muscle growth is limited by your own bone structure so natty lifting can get you to wherever you need to be.

And you will lose hair unless running RU

This was me after one year of lifting natty. Good enough that any additional muscle doesn’t really matter to women, only other men

I agree that steroids aren't needed in some cases. Some people have the ability to pack on enough muscle, they just need to get lean and keep the muscle.

I agree that steroids aren't needed in some cases. Some people have the ability to pack on enough muscle, they just need to get lean and keep the muscle.

Looking good BTW

 

[jefferson]

I think the aromasin is necessary.

Trust me it isn't, not on 150mg/wk

 

[Zeus]

How to lose your hair 101

 

[mesr]

My genetics are pretty average from a lifting standpoint too. I deadlift 300 for reps, bench 185, squat 225. These aren’t huge numbers, and I don’t think they’ll go up much further tbh I’ve been platued for half a year but shit diet during that time. And I am almost sure I am somewhat close to my ideal muscle/bone ratio, 5lbs more of muscle max more muscle would not necessarily be better

So I think most of us can get there without roids.

And a lot of roiders I have seen have hair loss.

 

[x30001]

Trust me it isn't, not on 150mg/wk

Aight, thanks for the advice. I'll take it out

My genetics are pretty average from a lifting standpoint too. I deadlift 300 for reps, bench 185, squat 225. These aren’t huge numbers, and I don’t think they’ll go up much further tbh I’ve been platued for half a year but shit diet during that time. And I am almost sure I am somewhat close to my ideal muscle/bone ratio, 5lbs more of muscle max more muscle would not necessarily be better

So I think most of us can get there without roids.

And a lot of roiders I have seen have hair loss.

There's no escaping the Norwood reaper and no escaping your genetics. I was trying to put together the most hair friendly cycles. I think the 2nd protocol is a lot better for not losing hair. But if you're predisposed, you're eventually fucked.
Added liver protection to the 2nd cycle. T-bol 12 weeks straight won't be easy on the liver.

Okay here it goes. This guide is aimed to give you insight into most effective physique enhancing drugs with a HUGE emphasis on NOT speeding up MBP, getting acne, getting gyno, aging your face and permanently corrupting your endocrine system.

This protocol is only applicable once you are in the 10-12% range or below. If your not in that range, this is not for you. Lose the fat first. Your diet, training and lifestyle must be strict and in check. The aim of this cycle is not to become a mutant or even give people the impression that you've taken steroids. The aim is to add sufficient muscularity to your frame once you become lean. If you have low myostatin levels and a good frame then you might not need to follow this guide at all; your aim would be to stay lean whilst maintaining your lean muscle, which clenbuterol is perfect for.

Okay so, this guide starts when you are 10-12% body fat or less and want to add lean muscle without the sides. FORGET taking SARMS and pro-hormones. Your flaw must be that you can't put on muscle but are already lean. Maybe you have a fast metabolism, ectomorph body type and higher myostatin levels than the average.

This protocol will help you look like thisView attachment 44447

It won't help you look like this:
View attachment 44453


So now that we've gotten that out of the way. Here's how you start.

If you're Norwood0 you can take the less safe but more effective route.

Protocol:
Testosterone Enanthate: 150mg per week.
Primobolan Enanthate: 800-1000mg per week.
Aromasin: 25mg e5d [only follow this if you start experiencing nipple sensitivity on the cycle] Try 12.5mg e5d, if that's not helping then move up to 25mg e5d. You likely won't experience and nipple sensitivity] - Credit @jefferson

Duration: 12-14 weeks

The testosterone is just a replacement dose. The aim is for the primobolan to work its magic. It's a DHT steroid but is nowhere near as harsh on the hairline as other DHT steroids such as Anadrol, Superdrol, Halotestin and Winstrol. Primobolan has an anabolic rating of 88 and an androgenic rating between 44-57. Acne and hairloss is still possible but you won't notice much severity in these side effects, if they do occur at all. Primobolan low dose is considered to be 400mg per week and the average is 600-800mg, closer to 800mg. This steroid produces very dry lean gains, and in some reports lifts mood and makes skin look healthier. If you are not extra sensitive to androgens you will not experience side effects from a steroid with such a low androgenic rating. With primobolan, it's hard to tell if you're taking steroids at all and has nice harmony, bringing out the perfect amount of vascularity and lean muscle gains are slow and steady, noticeable although subtle which is a good thing. You won't hold water, in fact you'll hold less water on cycle, and may notice increases in hair quality if you don't experience shedding due to DHT sensitivity. Some non DHT steroids such as Dianabol and Trenbolone cause more hair shedding than Primobolan even though they are not DHT steroids. Since Primobolan won't be super harsh on your cholesterol and lipids, I won't include and drugs to control that. Make sure you are exercising throughout the cycle and doing cardio to keep you cardiovascular system active.

Ancillaries for hairloss and acne:
RU58841 topically on your scalp along with ketaconazole shampoo.
Have Accutane on hand in case you are extremely sensitive to the androgens.
Have Retin-A on hand also.

PCT:
Clomiphene Citrate: 100mg per day for 5 weeks.

That's it.

(Get your hormone levels checked by a doctor post cycle!)


Second approach: (If you are not Norwood0 or already expierencing balding.)

Testosterone Propianate: 100mg EOD
Turinabol (oral): 40mg week 1-6, 50mg week 6-12, 70mg week 12-14. (Take the Turinabol daily, ie: 40mg daily, week 1-6).
Aromasin: 25mg EOD before pinning the Propianate.
EDIT: Take GW-501516 at 15mg per day throughout the entire cycle and for 1 week into the 5 week PCT. Turinabol can affect your cholesterol and lipid negatively. GW-501516 is a peroxisome proliferator activated receptor modulator and possess fat burning and endurance benefits. It has also been proven to decrease LDL (bad cholesterol) and increase/sustain HDL (good cholesterol).

EDIT: Protect your liver, t-bol can affect your liver negatively. Take milk thistle, N-Acetyl-Cystene and drink lots of water. Avoid taking vitamin A and drinking alcohol. If you get severe acne from this cycle, which you very likely won't, wait til about a month after PCT to considering taking Accutane.

Take the aromasin (tablet form) roughly 3 hours before pinning. Aromasin reaches peak plasma levels after 2 hours and 54 minutes and as a half life of about 24 hours. You want to be very controlled and ensure that the Aromasin is at its peak levels when administering the propianate, ensuring no estrogen conversion or as little as possible, as 100mg EOD of Testosterone Propianate is not a low dose or replacement dose and will play more of a role in your muscle building than in the Primo cycle.

Turinabol has an androgenic rating of 6 and an anabolic rating of 54. It is known to be the only anabolic steroid designed for performancing enhancing purposes rather than medical or veterinary purposes. Designed by the Germans as a doping project to enable them to cheat in the olympic games and to pass drug tests, which they were successful doing. More information on turinabol was brought to light by the Germans in the 1990s. It's highly unlikely to see acne or hairloss on this protocol, unless you are already in the stages of balding. Even if you are sensitive to androgens, you may not experience ANY androgenic side effects. Turinabol is a modified form of testosterone that does not convert to estrogen (estradiol) or DHT.

PCT:
Clomiphene Citrate: 100mg daily for 5 weeks.
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 2000iu daily until your balls recover to normal size.

Ancillaries:
Keep all the skincare products on hand. Retin-A, Accutane too incase you react badly and experience sides which is extremely unlikely. Keep RU58841 and ketaconazole shampoo on hand too incase your MPB speeds up. If you aren't predisposed to MPB it's very unlikely that that the testosterone will make you lose hair.

Side note: Currently researching GHK-cu and it's potential benefits for hairloss prevention so that might be added in here later.

AGAIN: Don't start this cycle if you aren't 10-12% bodyfat or less.

Added liver protection to the 2nd cycle. T-bol 12 weeks straight won't be easy on the liver.

 

[x30001]

Working on something great at the moment. Experimenting protocols to attempt to get the best possible physique, shredded and muscular, without steroids, SARMS or any PED. Will update in some months as I'm currently testing out this routine and research maxing.

 

[x30001]

Working on something great at the moment. Experimenting protocols to attempt to get the best possible physique, shredded and muscular, without steroids, SARMS or any PED. Will update in some months as I'm currently testing out this routine and research maxing.

My research will be ready in about 5-6 weeks. Spending minimum of 90mins per day on it while working fulltime. Will only make it available to those who are really interested and motivated and to those who contribute on here.

 

[Mr manlet]

Finally a high IQ thread arrives.

 

[Deleted member 439]

great thread bro

 

[195cm]

I will heroic proportionsmax using roids

 

[x30001]

It won't be anything to do with steroids. Tbh if I could I'd delete this thread. A lot of the information I put out is misguided. What I'm focusing on now is how to achieve protein synthesis by activitating mTORC1 through backdoors by using arginine and leucine to inhibit the activitation of CASTOR1 and Sestrin2 respectively. If I can find a reliable way to manipulate the AKT signalling pathway into only activating mTORC1 which will lead to p70s6k -> eEF2/eIF4B/eIF4E -> protein synthesis through s6 phosphorylation in the ribosome of skeletal muscle tissue WITHOUT actually activating the AKT pathway in the first place, but instead activating AMPK so that once we activate mTOR we'll only be promoting muscular hypertrophy and nothing else growth related that mTOR activation promotes (such as growth of tumors, cancer cells, and all other forms of non-muscle cellular growth, which are a nuisance and very bad for short/long term health and especially bad for fatloss.

So I'm thinking fatloss and muscle growth can be achieved with a very strict and meticulous strategy which involves only activating the mTORC1. That can easily be done with Arginine and Leucine. CASTOR1 (Cytosolic Arginine Sensor For MTORC1 Subunit 1) is essentially an Arginine sensor. Inhibiting the activation of CASTOR1 makes it impossible for CASTOR1 to inhibit GATOR2. Since GATOR2 isn't inhibited (it's activated), that means it can activate GATOR1 which inhibits Rag which eventually activates mTORC1. Very convoluted backdoor approach of activating mTORC1, but it works, and we're not activating AKT through insulin secretion which is the traditional way of activating the entire mTOR pathway (eg: by eating food).

Sestrin-2 AKA Hi95 protein is essentially a Leucine sensor, just like CASTOR1 is an Arginine sensor. Sestrin-2 inhibits GATOR2 and achieves the same eventual effect as Arginine does, targeting mTORC1 activation through another back door.

Problem is: I do not know how I can prevent secretion of insulin whilst activating these backdoor pathways. Arginine and Leucine do promote insulin secretion but I'm unsure to what extent. Ideal scenario would be to activate AMPK at the same time, in an attempt to block any AKT signalling. Something like metformin could work in doing that, but it's still very risky and I still need a lot of time to figure this out. Using diabeties drugs in an attempt to achieve this is very risky and I'm certain there's still tons of consequences I'm yet to discover. And still uncertain if it's actually biologically possible to prevent AKT signalling when consuming these amino acids as they DO cause your pancreas to secrete insulin to an extent.

TLDR:

Trying to only activate the specific pathway responsible for muscle protein synthesis without activating all the other pathways which promote fat gain and unwanted cell proliferation outside of the (skeletal) muscle tissue. (ie: only the muscle tissues we want to hypertrophy, not internal muscles like the heart, or organs. Just the muscles on the outside of your skeleton)

 

[Mr manlet]

Turkesterone increases muscle protein synthesis, would that not work? If not why?

 

[Deleted member 439]

Turkesterone increases muscle protein synthesis, would that not work? If not why?

where can you buy this bro? do you inject it? is it legal?
you should make a thread about it and tag me brother

 

[x30001]

Turkesterone increases muscle protein synthesis, would that not work? If not why?

Because injecting steroids has lots of bad long term effects on your endocrine system and has many side effects such as acne, hair loss and gyno which are things that looksmaxers don't want.

 

[Mr manlet]

where can you buy this bro? do you inject it? is it legal?
you should make a thread about it and tag me brother

It's legal and is taken as a pill.

It's an extract from a plant root of some mountain and can't be grown anywhere else.

Because injecting steroids has lots of bad long term effects on your endocrine system and has many side effects such as acne, hair loss and gyno which are things that looksmaxers don't want.

I said turkestrone not testosterone.

 

[x30001]

It's legal and is taken as a pill.

It's an extract from a plant root of some mountain and can't be grown anywhere else.



I said turkestrone not testosterone.

Laxogenin lol garbage

It won't be anything to do with steroids. Tbh if I could I'd delete this thread. A lot of the information I put out is misguided. What I'm focusing on now is how to achieve protein synthesis by activitating mTORC1 through backdoors by using arginine and leucine to inhibit the activitation of CASTOR1 and Sestrin2 respectively. If I can find a reliable way to manipulate the AKT signalling pathway into only activating mTORC1 which will lead to p70s6k -> eEF2/eIF4B/eIF4E -> protein synthesis through s6 phosphorylation in the ribosome of skeletal muscle tissue WITHOUT actually activating the AKT pathway in the first place, but instead activating AMPK so that once we activate mTOR we'll only be promoting muscular hypertrophy and nothing else growth related that mTOR activation promotes (such as growth of tumors, cancer cells, and all other forms of non-muscle cellular growth, which are a nuisance and very bad for short/long term health and especially bad for fatloss.

So I'm thinking fatloss and muscle growth can be achieved with a very strict and meticulous strategy which involves only activating the mTORC1. That can easily be done with Arginine and Leucine. CASTOR1 (Cytosolic Arginine Sensor For MTORC1 Subunit 1) is essentially an Arginine sensor. Inhibiting the activation of CASTOR1 makes it impossible for CASTOR1 to inhibit GATOR2. Since GATOR2 isn't inhibited (it's activated), that means it can activate GATOR1 which inhibits Rag which eventually activates mTORC1. Very convoluted backdoor approach of activating mTORC1, but it works, and we're not activating AKT through insulin secretion which is the traditional way of activating the entire mTOR pathway (eg: by eating food).

Sestrin-2 AKA Hi95 protein is essentially a Leucine sensor, just like CASTOR1 is an Arginine sensor. Sestrin-2 inhibits GATOR2 and achieves the same eventual effect as Arginine does, targeting mTORC1 activation through another back door.

Problem is: I do not know how I can prevent secretion of insulin whilst activating these backdoor pathways. Arginine and Leucine do promote insulin secretion but I'm unsure to what extent. Ideal scenario would be to activate AMPK at the same time, in an attempt to block any AKT signalling. Something like metformin could work in doing that, but it's still very risky and I still need a lot of time to figure this out. Using diabeties drugs in an attempt to achieve this is very risky and I'm certain there's still tons of consequences I'm yet to discover. And still uncertain if it's actually biologically possible to prevent AKT signalling when consuming these amino acids as they DO cause your pancreas to secrete insulin to an extent.

TLDR:

Trying to only activate the specific pathway responsible for muscle protein synthesis without activating all the other pathways which promote fat gain and unwanted cell proliferation outside of the (skeletal) muscle tissue. (ie: only the muscle tissues we want to hypertrophy, not internal muscles like the heart, or organs. Just the muscles on the outside of your skeleton)

Ultimate goal is to inhibit TSC2 whilst activating mTORC1 through Arginine/Leucine.

 

[BrettyBoy]

Finally a high IQ thread arrives.

XD

 

[CopingCel]

Laxogenin lol garbage

View attachment 65231
Ultimate goal is to inhibit TSC2 whilst activating mTORC1 through Arginine/Leucine.

any news on this?

 

[x30001]

any news on this?

Yes, this thread https://looksmax.org/threads/build-muscle-and-burn-fat-at-the-same-time-as-a-natty.23953

 

[Deleted member 2788]

Can you do a full guide on skin? Please. The ones we have lack information.

 

[x30001]

Can you do a full guide on skin? Please. The ones we have lack information.

No

 

[Deleted member 2788]

No

Y tho

 

[FatJattMofo]

will read

 

[MewingJBP]

LOL taking roids to look like Christiano Ronaldo, didn't realize I lurk among such subhumans

 

[Deleted member 2756]

Clomiphene Citrate: 100mg daily for 5 weeks.

holy fuck @Seth Walsh that's an insane dosage of clomifene, and daily, christ almighty.

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 2000iu daily until your balls recover to normal size.

that dosage will cause enough oxidative stress to induce mass apoptosis within the Leydig cells. N-acetyl-cysteine is a must if you are to run HCG at any dose because it will deplete intratesticular antioxidant levels.

 

[CopingCel]

holy fuck @Seth Walsh that's an insane dosage of clomifene, and daily, christ almighty.

that dosage will cause enough oxidative stress to induce mass apoptosis within the Leydig cells. N-acetyl-cysteine is a must if you are to run HCG at any dose because it will deplete intratesticular antioxidant levels.

Is hcg a problem when taken for longer periods of time, e.g. when on trt as well?
If yes, do you have any further reading material on this topic?

 

[Seth Walsh]

holy fuck @Seth Walsh that's an insane dosage of clomifene, and daily, christ almighty.

that dosage will cause enough oxidative stress to induce mass apoptosis within the Leydig cells. N-acetyl-cysteine is a must if you are to run HCG at any dose because it will deplete intratesticular antioxidant levels.

I didn't have a clue about PCT dosages and just took info from bodybuilding.com tbh. Wanted to delete this thread shortly after I made it because I thought it was so bad and didn't think a safe steroid cycle was possible. Trying to restore functions in your endocrine system which has purposely been messed with isn't realistic. And using such high amounts of Clomid and HCG so frequently wouldn't even fix the mess. Will just cause knock on problems which I wasn't aware of 1 year ago. Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realise people still read this thread. It's seriously misinformed and I only made it primarily to appeal/appease people rather than give the best possible advice. I recommend nobody to follow anything from the OP

 

[Deleted member 2756]

Is hcg a problem when taken for longer periods of time, e.g. when on trt as well?
If yes, do you have any further reading material on this topic?

yeah, it's not good at all, it will cause intracellular lipid peroxidation and upregulate the expression of the apoptotic gene, which in turn leads to the degradation of the Leydig cells, N-acetyl-cysteine can counteract the damage that HCG can do via it's replenishing effects on glutathione stores, which is our bodies strongest endogenous antioxidant.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21856376/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18202138/?from_term=leydig+cell+glutathione&from_pos=6

 

[Zeta ascended]

yeah, it's not good at all, it will cause intracellular lipid peroxidation and upregulate the expression of the apoptotic gene, which in turn leads to the degradation of the Leydig cells, N-acetyl-cysteine can counteract the damage that HCG can do via it's replenishing effects on glutathione stores, which is our bodies strongest endogenous antioxidant.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21856376/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18202138/?from_term=leydig+cell+glutathione&from_pos=6

Hhhhmmmm.....So I can't take glutathione to lighten skin while roidcelling to ascend. Over nigga

 

[6ft4]

Why not suggest anavar?

 

[CopingCel]

yeah, it's not good at all, it will cause intracellular lipid peroxidation and upregulate the expression of the apoptotic gene, which in turn leads to the degradation of the Leydig cells, N-acetyl-cysteine can counteract the damage that HCG can do via it's replenishing effects on glutathione stores, which is our bodies strongest endogenous antioxidant.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21856376/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18202138/?from_term=leydig+cell+glutathione&from_pos=6

So better don't take hcg and let your balls atrophy on trt?

 

[Moggy]

Why not suggest anavar?

150mg test/wk and 20mg anavar/daily was shown in clinical studies to pack on as much LBM as 600mg test/wk without all the deleterious side effects.

 

[Deleted member 2756]

So better don't take hcg and let your balls atrophy on trt?

did you read the studies that I posted?
you have to use HCG, otherwise, the LH-receptors in the Leydig cells will downregulate as it won't have a signal to bind onto, HCG isn't structured similarly to luteinizing hormone rather it is in the same class of peptides 'gonadotropins', therefore it can bind to the receptor and induce steroidogenesis, HCG will, of course, suppress the HPTA because it's replacing LH, but by using it you're taking one possible challenge out of the equation after discontinuation of steroids, for example, if you were to run testosterone for 8 weeks alone without HCG, the post cycle therapy isn't going to be as effective as if you were to use HCG, because the cells are going to be desensitized to a gonadotropic signal, however, if you were to run both testosterone combined with HCG throughout the 8 week period, and then discontinue and introduce a selective estrogen receptor modulator, your Leydig cells would respond better to the replenishment of endogenous LH. The issue with HCG is it seems to cause oxidative stress within the testes and induce lipid peroxidation, all sorts of nasty things. The studies I posted suggested that using N-acetyl-cysteine combats the HCG-induced-oxidative stress, via its mechanism in restoring endogenous glutathione, glutathione being the strongest anti-oxidant we have, it does a good job at reversing the oxidative stress and reversing apoptotic markers.

 

[CopingCel]

150mg test/wk and 20mg anavar/daily was shown in clinical studies to pack on as much LBM as 600mg test/wk without all the deleterious side effects.

I am no expert, but I read that it is very difficult to get real anavar and that you often get something else with similar muscle growth but worse sides because anavar is expensive to produce.

Test in contrary is really cheap and almost always clean.

 

[Deleted member 2756]

Test in contrary is really cheap and almost always clean.

just stick to testosterone, although @Moggy is right, Anavar is a god-send steroid.
if you're taking trt for overall wellbeing you don't need to add anything in other than HCG, another thing I want to add is that taking testosterone without HCG will lead to the inhibition of multiple steroidogenesis pathways because it suppresses LH which begins the entire process, you're basically cutting out progesterone, pregnanolone and other important steroids because they come before the synthesis of testosterone, without progesterone and pregnenolone you're cutting out many beneficial neurosteroids that alter the GABA-A site positively via allosteric modulation. Taking finasteride is even worse for this situation as 5-alpha-reductase is needed for basically all neurosteroids, probably one of the reasons individuals taking finasteride experience sexual sides, GABA-A is highly regulated via these neurosteroids, without them sexual impotence from a large to small scale is highly likely.

 

[Deleted member 2506]

this shit aint worth it

 

[6ft4]

150mg test/wk and 20mg anavar/daily was shown in clinical studies to pack on as much LBM as 600mg test/wk without all the deleterious side effects.

were the participants weight training or not?

 

[Moggy]

were the participants weight training or not?

Moreplatesmoredates talks about it, not sure what video it was, but I'm sure you can find it.

 

[Deleted member 6400]

bumo

 

[Donc0ck]

W

Okay here it goes. This guide is aimed to give you insight into most effective physique enhancing drugs with a HUGE emphasis on NOT speeding up MBP, getting acne, getting gyno, aging your face and permanently corrupting your endocrine system.

This protocol is only applicable once you are in the 10-12% range or below. If your not in that range, this is not for you. Lose the fat first. Your diet, training and lifestyle must be strict and in check. The aim of this cycle is not to become a mutant or even give people the impression that you've taken steroids. The aim is to add sufficient muscularity to your frame once you become lean. If you have low myostatin levels and a good frame then you might not need to follow this guide at all; your aim would be to stay lean whilst maintaining your lean muscle, which clenbuterol is perfect for.

Okay so, this guide starts when you are 10-12% body fat or less and want to add lean muscle without the sides. FORGET taking SARMS and pro-hormones. Your flaw must be that you can't put on muscle but are already lean. Maybe you have a fast metabolism, ectomorph body type and higher myostatin levels than the average.

This protocol will help you look like thisView attachment 44447

It won't help you look like this:
View attachment 44453


So now that we've gotten that out of the way. Here's how you start.

If you're Norwood0 you can take the less safe but more effective route.

Protocol:
Testosterone Enanthate: 150mg per week.
Primobolan Enanthate: 800-1000mg per week.
Aromasin: 25mg e5d [only follow this if you start experiencing nipple sensitivity on the cycle] Try 12.5mg e5d, if that's not helping then move up to 25mg e5d. You likely won't experience and nipple sensitivity] - Credit @jefferson

Duration: 12-14 weeks

The testosterone is just a replacement dose. The aim is for the primobolan to work its magic. It's a DHT steroid but is nowhere near as harsh on the hairline as other DHT steroids such as Anadrol, Superdrol, Halotestin and Winstrol. Primobolan has an anabolic rating of 88 and an androgenic rating between 44-57. Acne and hairloss is still possible but you won't notice much severity in these side effects, if they do occur at all. Primobolan low dose is considered to be 400mg per week and the average is 600-800mg, closer to 800mg. This steroid produces very dry lean gains, and in some reports lifts mood and makes skin look healthier. If you are not extra sensitive to androgens you will not experience side effects from a steroid with such a low androgenic rating. With primobolan, it's hard to tell if you're taking steroids at all and has nice harmony, bringing out the perfect amount of vascularity and lean muscle gains are slow and steady, noticeable although subtle which is a good thing. You won't hold water, in fact you'll hold less water on cycle, and may notice increases in hair quality if you don't experience shedding due to DHT sensitivity. Some non DHT steroids such as Dianabol and Trenbolone cause more hair shedding than Primobolan even though they are not DHT steroids. Since Primobolan won't be super harsh on your cholesterol and lipids, I won't include and drugs to control that. Make sure you are exercising throughout the cycle and doing cardio to keep you cardiovascular system active.

Ancillaries for hairloss and acne:
RU58841 topically on your scalp along with ketaconazole shampoo.
Have Accutane on hand in case you are extremely sensitive to the androgens.
Have Retin-A on hand also.

PCT:
Clomiphene Citrate: 100mg per day for 5 weeks.

That's it.

(Get your hormone levels checked by a doctor post cycle!)


Second approach: (If you are not Norwood0 or already expierencing balding.)

Testosterone Propianate: 100mg EOD
Turinabol (oral): 40mg week 1-6, 50mg week 6-12, 70mg week 12-14. (Take the Turinabol daily, ie: 40mg daily, week 1-6).
Aromasin: 25mg EOD before pinning the Propianate.
EDIT: Take GW-501516 at 15mg per day throughout the entire cycle and for 1 week into the 5 week PCT. Turinabol can affect your cholesterol and lipid negatively. GW-501516 is a peroxisome proliferator activated receptor modulator and possess fat burning and endurance benefits. It has also been proven to decrease LDL (bad cholesterol) and increase/sustain HDL (good cholesterol).

EDIT: Protect your liver, t-bol can affect your liver negatively. Take milk thistle, N-Acetyl-Cystene and drink lots of water. Avoid taking vitamin A and drinking alcohol. If you get severe acne from this cycle, which you very likely won't, wait til about a month after PCT to considering taking Accutane.

Take the aromasin (tablet form) roughly 3 hours before pinning. Aromasin reaches peak plasma levels after 2 hours and 54 minutes and as a half life of about 24 hours. You want to be very controlled and ensure that the Aromasin is at its peak levels when administering the propianate, ensuring no estrogen conversion or as little as possible, as 100mg EOD of Testosterone Propianate is not a low dose or replacement dose and will play more of a role in your muscle building than in the Primo cycle.

Turinabol has an androgenic rating of 6 and an anabolic rating of 54. It is known to be the only anabolic steroid designed for performancing enhancing purposes rather than medical or veterinary purposes. Designed by the Germans as a doping project to enable them to cheat in the olympic games and to pass drug tests, which they were successful doing. More information on turinabol was brought to light by the Germans in the 1990s. It's highly unlikely to see acne or hairloss on this protocol, unless you are already in the stages of balding. Even if you are sensitive to androgens, you may not experience ANY androgenic side effects. Turinabol is a modified form of testosterone that does not convert to estrogen (estradiol) or DHT.

PCT:
Clomiphene Citrate: 100mg daily for 5 weeks.
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 2000iu daily until your balls recover to normal size.

Ancillaries:
Keep all the skincare products on hand. Retin-A, Accutane too incase you react badly and experience sides which is extremely unlikely. Keep RU58841 and ketaconazole shampoo on hand too incase your MPB speeds up. If you aren't predisposed to MPB it's very unlikely that that the testosterone will make you lose hair.

Side note: Currently researching GHK-cu and it's potential benefits for hairloss prevention so that might be added in here later.

AGAIN: Don't start this cycle if you aren't 10-12% bodyfat or less.

Whats your take on 200mg test cyp a week + some anavar each day?

 

[Deleted member 6400]

W
Whats your take on 200mg test cyp a week + some anavar each day?

@Seth Walsh

 

[Seth Walsh]

@Seth Walsh

Not good

 

[Gaia262]

Not good

please elab, from what I have researched 150mg test +20mg anavar a day is ideal in terms of muscle growth and minimum side effects.

Also looking for something that doesn't supress natural testosterone and is sustainable.

(I won't use the HIV study to prove this, as using HIV patients who are already muscle wasting is not indicative to anyone here)

 

[Mateusz74]

Damn was expecting ibutamoren