[Blackpill] Why MSE along facepulling will probably result in shitty results

SayNoToRotting

SayNoToRotting

Zephir
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Messages
4,788
@betamanlet looks like you as the only one have a lot of answers to the fundemental questions about bonegrowth/remodeling I always had.


I should have probably made my research on it a long time ago, but what about the neurocranium?
We've established that maxillary rotation along side the suture is not possible, And that remodelling can only really safely occur within the maxilla or other bone plates themselves.


So what about a facepuller "bending" the skull above the frontonasal suture? Seemed to be the case in the rhesus monkeys:

https://looksmax.me/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facepulling.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F11%2Fadult-orthotropics.png&hash=626537df6d308641c6244000cc11099b



This would essentially be a complete "maxillary upswing", just with the browridge on top of that.







Also- on a somewhat related note- Look at what the stress distribution looks like during incisor biting:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Ledogar/publication/324209022/figure/fig2/AS:611991815221248@1522921627360/Results-of-finite-element-analysis-under-an-anterior-bite-simulation-loading-via-muscle.png





There is also a lot of stress distributed around the nasal bridge, and even some pressure in the notch above the browridge, so I would expect that there is going to be some upswing (or at least compression) around those areas.
 
Last edited:
Dino Hamciaren

Dino Hamciaren

Race: curry, but can pass as exotic med
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266
Maxilla compression. Interesting concept.
 
betamanlet

betamanlet

Amateur
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Oct 31, 2019
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324
@betamanlet looks like you as the only one have a lot of answers to the fundemental questions about bonegrowth/remodeling I always had.


I should have probably made my research on it a long time ago, but what about the neurocranium?
We've established that maxillary rotation along side the suture is not possible, And that remodelling can only really safely occur within the maxilla or other bone plates themselves.


So what about a facepuller "bending" the skull above the frontonasal suture? Seemed to be the case in the rhesus monkeys:

https://looksmax.me/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facepulling.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F11%2Fadult-orthotropics.png&hash=626537df6d308641c6244000cc11099b



This would essentially be a complete "maxillary upswing", just with the browridge on top of that.







Also- on a somewhat related note- Look at what the stress distribution looks like during incisor biting:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Ledogar/publication/324209022/figure/fig2/AS:611991815221248@1522921627360/Results-of-finite-element-analysis-under-an-anterior-bite-simulation-loading-via-muscle.png





There is also a lot of stress distributed around the nasal bridge, and even some pressure in the notch above the browridge, so I would expect that there is going to be some upswing (or at least compression) around those areas.
It's interesting that the stress distribution follows what would be the premaxillary sutural line, even though this suture is believed to be fully ossified by the time you turn 5. I couldn't find any frontal pictures of the human premaxillary suture, but here is how the suture looks on a monkey:

1575377454326.png


The premaxilla is essentially the middle third of the bone when divided into vertical segments. It thus seems that even though technically the suture is ossified, it is still subject to the same kind of friction/stress that the edges of Earth's tectonic plates are, i.e. the action happens where the bone, like Earth's crust, is the least solid. Another interesting point is that in each skull it is the canines that experience the highest stress, regardless of whether incisors or canines have the highest dental height. I don't know yet what to make of it, but it will be a valuable factor to be aware of.

As for your facepulling question, healthy bone does not really have the ability to assume new shapes by bending as far as I am aware. All changes should be explainable by growth and remodeling.. It's difficult to say how anatomically favorable the change in the monkey is. The problem is that the higher forward you position the occlusion, the worse its function as a cervical-supporting fulcrum becomes. For example, if your teeth and cervical spine are balanced in an angle like this:

1575382757432.png


Then increasing maxillary projection towards the direction of the radius (down and forward) would not change the relevant postural mechanics, (but rather only the effort needed to carry them out), because the relation between skull and spine would remain the same:

1575381403341.png


Rotating the occlusion, on the other hand, may cause the rest of the skull to compensate by rotating to opposite direction to an extent that would cause neck hyperflexion and verbetral bulge in the cervical spine as the body attempts to retain its preferred angle between occlusion and spine:

1575381853696.png

Such compensatory rotation is not necessarily a bad thing in all cases, but it's something to take into consideration before beginning any facepulling experiments.
 
reptiles

reptiles

Richard Romanov Arkwright Your lovable nobody.
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
8,739
Mew uses the AGGA also known as FAGGA, an appliance which grows the jaws forward without changing their angle.
this is why Mew's patients keep having a subhuman gonial angle.
AGGA is a scam because you can get with the same price an orthognatic surgery with CCW rotation


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