15mm BSSO vs 11mm BSSO

[Deleted member 19766]

One blackpilled ass surgeon said I need a 20mm BSSO but that he can only give me 15mm and that implants will do the rest, meanwhile my surgeon said he can only do up to 11mm because I already have pretty bad TMJ, the higher risk of relapse, and that they think I would look like a monkey after

What should I do?

 

[Asspear]

What did the second doctor say in regards to implants? Was the 20mm doctor Safi or Alfaro by chance? I've heard some rumblings about over-advancement from those two, but nothing concrete enough to condemn them outright.

 

[Deleted member 19766]

What did the second doctor say in regards to implants? Was the 20mm doctor Safi or Alfaro by chance? I've heard some rumblings about over-advancement from those two, but nothing concrete enough to condemn them outright.

yes, the 20mm doctor was safi. do you have any threads/sources of people saying he overadvances?
my surgeon is fine with implants, the only thing is i dont know exactly what implants safi was talking about when he was talking about projecting the mandible 5mm forward later with implants... maybe chin implant? no fucking clue.

 

[Asspear]

yes, the 20mm doctor was safi. do you have any threads/sources of people saying he overadvances?
my surgeon is fine with implants, the only thing is i dont know exactly what implants safi was talking about when he was talking about projecting the mandible 5mm forward later with implants... maybe chin implant? no fucking clue.

I honestly can't recall any threads off the top of my head, so really take it with a grain of salt. Just somewhere in my brain I've associated his name with it, so take that for exactly what it's worth lol.

Yeah, I'm trying to imagine an additional 5 mm. From what I've seen of your scans (if I'm recalling correctly), that seems like a lot/an odd choice. Must be a chin implant, surely. Like, can your upper third properly accommodate that much advancement? My initial thoughts mirror the other doctor in regards to looking a bit like a monkey. However, Safi might have a point. I believe anticel (or was it someone else) had a good experience with Safi and was not monkey'd, so maybe hid advancement has some merit. In regards to the TMJ, I'm somewhat surprised that this would be a limiting factor in regards to advancement. Wouldn't the BSSO assist with that? I think I lack some knowledge on this one to even have much of an opinion, but my gut (i.e. take this with a grain of salt) is that the TMJ wouldn't be a huge factor.

 

[Deleted member 19766]

I honestly can't recall any threads off the top of my head, so really take it with a grain of salt. Just somewhere in my brain I've associated his name with it, so take that for exactly what it's worth lol.

Yeah, I'm trying to imagine an additional 5 mm. From what I've seen of your scans (if I'm recalling correctly), that seems like a lot/an odd choice. Must be a chin implant, surely. Like, can your upper third properly accommodate that much advancement? My initial thoughts mirror the other doctor in regards to looking a bit like a monkey. However, Safi might have a point. I believe anticel (or was it someone else) had a good experience with Safi and was not monkey'd, so maybe hid advancement has some merit. In regards to the TMJ, I'm somewhat surprised that this would be a limiting factor in regards to advancement. Wouldn't the BSSO assist with that? I think I lack some knowledge on this one to even have much of an opinion, but my gut (i.e. take this with a grain of salt) is that the TMJ wouldn't be a huge factor.

it probably can't but i will get implants anyways so it's not that big of a deal, but even implants have their limits sometimes

let's not forget that safi is trained by sailer, and that they both follow the "Sailer Line", they're basically like a slightly less blackpilled version of Coceancig i think (With his notorious Coceancig Line)

 

[IAMNOTANINCEL]

Post scans?

 

[Asspear]

it probably can't but i will get implants anyways so it's not that big of a deal, but even implants have their limits sometimes

let's not forget that safi is trained by sailer, and that they both follow the "Sailer Line", they're basically like a slightly less blackpilled version of Coceancig i think (With his notorious Coceancig Line)

Just saw Giant's response to your other thread about the same thing - honestly sounds like he is also a little confused by what he's getting at. Safi definitely has the CV for this, but i'm also a little at a loss regarding what exactly he wants to do here. Idk, my intuition is telling me to trust Safi, but it certainly sounds a little aggressive/confusing.

 

[Deleted member 19766]

Just saw Giant's response to your other thread about the same thing - honestly sounds like he is also a little confused by what he's getting at. Safi definitely has the CV for this, but i'm also a little at a loss regarding what exactly he wants to do here. Idk, my intuition is telling me to trust Safi, but it certainly sounds a little aggressive/confusing.

he also said my upper jaw needs to be moved 6-7mm via le fort 1, but that only 4-5mm can be done while still looking good. do you think he might've wanted to put an implant there to make it hit the 6-7mm mark as well? or just for the mandible? if so, what do you think this implant could be?

 

[Asspear]

he also said my upper jaw needs to be moved 6-7mm via le fort 1, but that only 4-5mm can be done while still looking good. do you think he might've wanted to put an implant there to make it hit the 6-7mm mark as well? or just for the mandible? if so, what do you think this implant could be?

Well if he's saying that only 4-5mm will look good, I'm not sure why he'd be also saying that it needs to be moved 6-7mm. If he's referring to it causing too much of a jarring transition between the different areas of your face, I suppose some implants might work (i.e. a full midface implant to infraorbitial implant to smooth it out). However, my understanding is that you can't get a midface implant while also getting a LF1. At that point, wouldn't you just rather get more advancement on the LF1? I think I'd want to know why he wants to advance 7 mm but can only advance 5, since that would probably help determine the solution.

In general I'm honestly not sure what he's getting at. I don't blame you for being confused, I feel like he's miscommunicated his plan a bit. I trust that it makes sense, but yeah I'm not sure what his ideas are regarding oseteonomies vs. implants.

 

[Deleted member 19766]

Well if he's saying that only 4-5mm will look good, I'm not sure why he'd be also saying that it needs to be moved 6-7mm. If he's referring to it causing too much of a jarring transition between the different areas of your face, I suppose some implants might work (i.e. a full midface implant to infraorbitial implant to smooth it out). However, my understanding is that you can't get a midface implant while also getting a LF1. At that point, wouldn't you just rather get more advancement on the LF1? I think I'd want to know why he wants to advance 7 mm but can only advance 5, since that would probably help determine the solution.

In general I'm honestly not sure what he's getting at. I don't blame you for being confused, I feel like he's miscommunicated his plan a bit. I trust that it makes sense, but yeah I'm not sure what his ideas are regarding oseteonomies vs. implants.

4-5mm is generally said to be the limit you can do for lefort 1, any more and you get all the bad aesthetic side effects like an extremely wide nose, it totally fucks it up. he's saying ideally my upper jaw would be projected 6-7mm further but 4-5 is the limit, and he MAY have been suggesting an implant(s) could have helped cover that last 1-2mm but maybe he was just referring to the mandible, i don't know, he stopped responding to me.

 

[Asspear]

4-5mm is generally said to be the limit you can do for lefort 1, any more and you get all the bad aesthetic side effects like an extremely wide nose, it totally fucks it up. he's saying ideally my upper jaw would be projected 6-7mm further but 4-5 is the limit, and he MAY have been suggesting an implant(s) could have helped cover that last 1-2mm but maybe he was just referring to the mandible, i don't know, he stopped responding to me.

Ah I see, that makes sense then. In that case I can now understand what he'd be getting at. My concern would still be that, unless I suppose you got some custom plates alongside the LF1 that fulfilled a dual purpose of securing the LF1 and augmenting the midface, you would otherwise require the implants to be installed after the LF1 during another seperate surgery, right?

In that instance, like I mentioned earlier, I believe a total midface implant (i.e. paranasal all the way to infras) could accomplish this goal. That's my thoughts, anyway.

 

[depressionmaxxing]

Only advance BSSO in relation to midface and glabella.

You will end up monkey maxed, 11mm is allot already, 20mm is just crazy

 

[Deleted member 19766]

Only advance BSSO in relation to midface and glabella.

You will end up monkey maxed, 11mm is allot already, 20mm is just crazy

Implants can help though, even with glabella/forehead I think

Ah I see, that makes sense then. In that case I can now understand what he'd be getting at. My concern would still be that, unless I suppose you got some custom plates alongside the LF1 that fulfilled a dual purpose of securing the LF1 and augmenting the midface, you would otherwise require the implants to be installed after the LF1 during another seperate surgery, right?

In that instance, like I mentioned earlier, I believe a total midface implant (i.e. paranasal all the way to infras) could accomplish this goal. That's my thoughts, anyway.

Yes ofc the surgery would be separate and done later down the line

 

[Deleted member 19766]

Ah I see, that makes sense then. In that case I can now understand what he'd be getting at. My concern would still be that, unless I suppose you got some custom plates alongside the LF1 that fulfilled a dual purpose of securing the LF1 and augmenting the midface, you would otherwise require the implants to be installed after the LF1 during another seperate surgery, right?

In that instance, like I mentioned earlier, I believe a total midface implant (i.e. paranasal all the way to infras) could accomplish this goal. That's my thoughts, anyway.

How tf will midfacial implants move forward ur upper lip

 

[depressionmaxxing]

Implants can help though, even with glabella/forehead I think

Yes ofc the surgery would be separate and done later down the line

i thought you were doing bsso only, what selse where you planning?

 

[Asspear]

How tf will midfacial implants move forward ur upper lip

paranasal-premaxilary implants

 

[Oxygen]

yes, the 20mm doctor was safi. do you have any threads/sources of people saying he overadvances?
my surgeon is fine with implants, the only thing is i dont know exactly what implants safi was talking about when he was talking about projecting the mandible 5mm forward later with implants... maybe chin implant? no fucking clue.

Yes. Safi is not afraid of big advances. I dont got the records or threads on hand but trust me nigga.

 

[Deleted member 19766]

Yes. Safi is not afraid of big advances. I dont got the records or threads on hand but trust me nigga.

So u think he's not worth it?

 

[mlffff]

Stay away from Safi at all costs.

He is a master manipulator who is amazing at gaining your trust during the consultation. He will make you feel relaxed as if your in good hands but will ruin you on the operating table. He invests all his energy into convincing people to get surgery with him and preys on the naive. He will leave you with a poor aesthetic result and severe nerve damage. I have seen it first hand.

He messed up my friend badly. Safi left him with a terrible aesthetic result and a numb tongue. He now speaks with a lisp and can't taste anymore. My friend looks way worse than before surgery and hasn't left the house since. His social life has been ruined as his career. Safi also didn't want to release the surgical report or the post operative cbct scan. He was forced to after a lawyers intervention.

Two of Safis patients also reached out complaining about a terrible aesthetic result and nerve damage.

I suggest these three surgeons:

- For jaw surgery alone: Raffaini.
Raffaini is the #1 for jaw surgery in the world. He will analyse your case like no other surgeon. He also has the skill to influence your soft tissue which will leave you with the best aesthetic result. Raffaini is #1 no doubt.

- For jaw surgery combined with implants or implants alone, I suggest Pagnoni.
You don't need Giant Implants, Pagnoni himself is a great implant designer.

I suggest consulting with Raffaini. Pay the 500 Euros for the consult. Get the plan with the movements from Raffaini then go to Pagnoni and request those movements if you want to combine the jaw surgery with implants.

Ramieri is a safe middle ground option as well.

Whatever you do, stay away from Ali-Farid Safi.

Safi has ruined my friend. He drilled into his lingual nerves during the bimax which caused the numb tongue. This has been proven with a 3 tesla MRI scan.
Safis little implant company FaceXImplants is a scam. It's his own company and he has his brother in law as the implant designer who has no experience whatsoever.

Safi preys on the naive.
He can spot a naive person from the first second you open your mouth and then only sees dollar signs.
I've heard too many horror stories about Safi, from his patients to people who have worked for him. I've spoken to several Swiss surgeons who have had to fix his failed bimaxes.
Stay away from this scam artist surgeon whatever you do.

You have Raffaini, Pagnoni, Ramieri.
These three surgeons will give you an amazing aesthetic result... Look no further