Elias
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2019
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I have got a lot of things to say in this so ill try to get it all fitted in. Theres so much to say im not even sure ill remember everything.
MSE is not going to ascend you. It wont even increase you 1 PSL. If you have a long midface, bad FWHR, narrow IPD, narrow skull. Dont think MSE is going to save you and cure all those problems. If you have a long midface, its over. Keep coping with muh muh lip lift and muh muh MSE and muh muh CCW. MSE will not shorten the midface even if its combined with facepulling. Lip lift will just shorten your philtrum, but it wont shorten the part that actually matters which is the height from the bottom of eye to the tip of the nose, that is the part that will look ugly and a short philtrum with a long eye to tip of nose ratio will look awful and fake. CCW will rotate your maxilla a few degrees, but huge cope thinking that few degrees will make you have even a average midface if you have a midface like greeicy or gudru.
Everyone keeps saying MSE + FM. Mse is just going to expand your palate, and widen your midface, any other changes or so insignificant. We dont even have evidence yet that combined with a facebow that it will provide upward and forward growth of the maxilla in adults. Any evidence we do has just suggest it will be pulled upward and down even if it is pulled at a positive angle.
MSE is not a holy grail and the success rate isnt ideal either. Many peoples sutures havent split and then teeth have just been tipped out. Whether this was a mistake on the orthodontist to have not sent the patient to a maxillofacial surgeon to get it properly surgically split, or whether it was because the patients suture simply coudnt split, MSE was still a failure in those cases.
The reason i believe it worked successfully for Ronald ead was because of many reasons. He had done mewing for many years trying to naturally split his suture before MSE. This could have also been a factor because he did have AGGA before MSE which really weakened the alveolar bone around his teeth, but im not sure if this could have had anything to do with it. He also has a really good orthodontist that was willing to dive in the deep end and try extreme things to help ronald expand as much as possible and also trying to achieve coronal and saggital growth through fm with MSE, as AGGA had failed, relapsed and damaged his teeth.
But ronald didnt even wear the FM for a substantial period of time, and im pretty sure MSE has been taken out from his palate now. So seeing a MSE + FM case now in adults will be rare as getting substantial results from MSE and FM would take atleast 1-2 years on an adult patient, which means we wont see any results any time soon, especially with corona and orthodontists shutting down.
For me it doesnt even matter as i already have a wide FWHR and IPD, aswell as ideal midface. I just need more tongue space and more room for my teeth, and the health benefits wont hurt.
But if youre doing it to try to get eye improvements, midface shortened, widen IPD or widen your skull, youre coping.
However it will have decent results with widening the mouth, wideing the maxilla and pushing out the zygos laterally because the zygos are connected to the maxilla, but it will also widen the nasal base.
Bear in mind ronalds case could end up being a failure. Yes he expanded successfully but right now he is in a crisis. His teeth are all tipped, no bone surrounding his teeth due to AGGA, so he cant get SFOT. Still has the gaps. Its a messy situation for him, and now that corona has came hes in a real crisis. The longer he leaves it the worse the situation could become. His orthodontist has already refused to do SFOT on him due to there being no bone around some of his teeth because of the damage AGGA did. Finding another orthodontist that will in a pandemic situation like this is going to be impossible.
MSE is a really big risk for a little reward.
Dont get your hopes up
It is not a holy grail
And dont even get me started on the pain it will cause you.
Theres some other things I want to say but thing thread is getting long. This is just a stupid rant with loads of mistakes as Im dumbfounded by all the MSE cope threads
MSE is not going to ascend you. It wont even increase you 1 PSL. If you have a long midface, bad FWHR, narrow IPD, narrow skull. Dont think MSE is going to save you and cure all those problems. If you have a long midface, its over. Keep coping with muh muh lip lift and muh muh MSE and muh muh CCW. MSE will not shorten the midface even if its combined with facepulling. Lip lift will just shorten your philtrum, but it wont shorten the part that actually matters which is the height from the bottom of eye to the tip of the nose, that is the part that will look ugly and a short philtrum with a long eye to tip of nose ratio will look awful and fake. CCW will rotate your maxilla a few degrees, but huge cope thinking that few degrees will make you have even a average midface if you have a midface like greeicy or gudru.
Everyone keeps saying MSE + FM. Mse is just going to expand your palate, and widen your midface, any other changes or so insignificant. We dont even have evidence yet that combined with a facebow that it will provide upward and forward growth of the maxilla in adults. Any evidence we do has just suggest it will be pulled upward and down even if it is pulled at a positive angle.
MSE is not a holy grail and the success rate isnt ideal either. Many peoples sutures havent split and then teeth have just been tipped out. Whether this was a mistake on the orthodontist to have not sent the patient to a maxillofacial surgeon to get it properly surgically split, or whether it was because the patients suture simply coudnt split, MSE was still a failure in those cases.
The reason i believe it worked successfully for Ronald ead was because of many reasons. He had done mewing for many years trying to naturally split his suture before MSE. This could have also been a factor because he did have AGGA before MSE which really weakened the alveolar bone around his teeth, but im not sure if this could have had anything to do with it. He also has a really good orthodontist that was willing to dive in the deep end and try extreme things to help ronald expand as much as possible and also trying to achieve coronal and saggital growth through fm with MSE, as AGGA had failed, relapsed and damaged his teeth.
But ronald didnt even wear the FM for a substantial period of time, and im pretty sure MSE has been taken out from his palate now. So seeing a MSE + FM case now in adults will be rare as getting substantial results from MSE and FM would take atleast 1-2 years on an adult patient, which means we wont see any results any time soon, especially with corona and orthodontists shutting down.
For me it doesnt even matter as i already have a wide FWHR and IPD, aswell as ideal midface. I just need more tongue space and more room for my teeth, and the health benefits wont hurt.
But if youre doing it to try to get eye improvements, midface shortened, widen IPD or widen your skull, youre coping.
However it will have decent results with widening the mouth, wideing the maxilla and pushing out the zygos laterally because the zygos are connected to the maxilla, but it will also widen the nasal base.
Bear in mind ronalds case could end up being a failure. Yes he expanded successfully but right now he is in a crisis. His teeth are all tipped, no bone surrounding his teeth due to AGGA, so he cant get SFOT. Still has the gaps. Its a messy situation for him, and now that corona has came hes in a real crisis. The longer he leaves it the worse the situation could become. His orthodontist has already refused to do SFOT on him due to there being no bone around some of his teeth because of the damage AGGA did. Finding another orthodontist that will in a pandemic situation like this is going to be impossible.
MSE is a really big risk for a little reward.
Dont get your hopes up
It is not a holy grail
And dont even get me started on the pain it will cause you.
Theres some other things I want to say but thing thread is getting long. This is just a stupid rant with loads of mistakes as Im dumbfounded by all the MSE cope threads
.
