Antioxidants - Difference between direct and indirect ones + How to increase both (dont waste your time with antioxidant supplements)

[Deleted member 22354]

Antioxidant ≠ Antioxidant! Antioxidants neutralize free radicals. There are direct (fruits, juices, supplements) and indirect (enzymes SOD & CAT). Free radicals are produced in the body's own cells. Antioxidants are therefore needed in cells, which can only be achieved by indirect ones. So the focus should always be on increasing the indirect ones.

Why you should increase both nevertheless
Direct antioxidants, such as those found in fruits, juices, and supplements, are molecules that can directly neutralize free radicals. These antioxidants include vitamins C and E, beta-carotene, and other carotenoids.

Indirect antioxidants, such as enzymes like superoxide dismutase (SOD) and catalase (CAT), work by helping to neutralize free radicals before they form or by repairing damage caused by free radicals. These enzymes are produced naturally by the body.

Both direct and indirect antioxidants are important for maintaining cellular health and preventing damage caused by free radicals. Direct antioxidants can neutralize free radicals directly and also can help to protect cells from damage caused by free radicals. Indirect antioxidants can help to neutralize free radicals before they form and also can help to repair damage caused by free radicals. It is important to have a balance of both types of antioxidants in the body, as they work together to protect cells and maintain overall health.

How to increase direct ones:

1. Diet: Eat Fruits and vegetables who are high in vitamins C and E, beta-carotene, and other carotenoids, which are all direct antioxidants
2. Avoiding smoking and excessive alcohol consumption: Smoking and excessive alcohol consumption can deplete the levels of direct antioxidants in the body.
3. Exercise: Regular physical activity can increase the levels of direct antioxidants in the body by reducing the production of free radicals and enhancing the antioxidant defense system
4. Sun exposure: exposure to sunlight can help the body to produce vitamin D, a direct antioxidant. Just dont overdo it.

How to increase the indirect ones (SOD & CAT):

1. Diet: Eating a diet rich in fruits and especially meat (liver/brain) can increase the levels of SOD and CAT in the body
2. Exercise: Regular physical activity has been shown to increase the levels of SOD and CAT in the body. Exercise can also help to reduce the production of free radicals
3. Stress management: Chronic stress can lead to an increase in free radical production and a decrease in the levels of SOD and CAT. Managing stress through techniques such as yoga, meditation, or deep breathing can help to reduce stress levels and boost antioxidant levels

My problem with supplements:

1. Absorption: From natural sources, such as fruits and vegetables, are often better absorbed by the body than those from supplements. This is because the antioxidants in natural sources are typically combined with other beneficial compounds and nutrients that can help with their absorption
2. Interaction with other compounds: Antioxidants in natural sources, such as fruits and vegetables, also interact with other beneficial compounds and nutrients that can enhance their effectiveness. This is not the case with supplements, which may contain only one antioxidant
3. Natural balance: Fruits and vegetables contain a wide variety of antioxidants, which work together to provide maximum benefits. Taking a single antioxidant supplement wont not provide the same level of protection as consuming a variety of antioxidants through natural sources
4. Dosage: Taking too much antioxidant supplement can lead to toxicity

Spoiler: tags

@JohnDoe @hormonetherapy @Dystopian @capybara @newperson @rand anon @sebsyx @Fulgrim @rightfulcel @Hiraeth @Dr. Bruh

 

[Deleted member 8771]

Absolute academic weapon

 

[gribsufer1]

just take vit d supps instead of sacrificing collagen

 

[Deleted member 22354]

just take vit d supps instead of sacrificing collagen

I always recommend Vit D, K2, Mg and Zn for general health, everything else is luxury and in many cases useless or even harmful.

 

[JohnDoe]

Also, you should think twice before taking any anti-aging supplements like NAC, NMD. NMD in particular has no studies on what happens when you stop taking it and quite a few people have gotten blood work done after stopping and their biological age is older than their chronological age. They feel older and have aged way way faster since your body has allegedly stopped producing the compound naturally.
I've always said it's best to go the natural way, don't take all these supplements or other bullshit, try and be healthy and natural. The only obvious ones are Vit D if you don't get sun/go outside. Everything else, i'm not that sure you really need it. I'm not so sure that you will be deficient in zinc/magnesium if you don't take supps, i've had family members who don't take any of that stuff and their levels are normal, i'll personally get a full blood test soon aswell. K2 can be a double-edged sword according to some but i'll look into it more.

 

[Deleted member 22354]

Also, you should think twice before taking any anti-aging supplements like NAC, NMD. NMD in particular has no studies on what happens when you stop taking it and quite a few people have gotten blood work done after stopping and their biological age is older than their chronological age. They feel older and have aged way way faster since your body has allegedly stopped producing the compound naturally.
I've always said it's best to go the natural way, don't take all these supplements or other bullshit, try and be healthy and natural. The only obvious ones are Vit D if you don't get sun/go outside. Everything else, i'm not that sure you really need it. I'm not so sure that you will be deficient in zinc/magnesium if you don't take supps, i've had family members who don't take any of that stuff and their levels are normal, i'll personally get a full blood test soon aswell. K2 can be a double-edged sword according to some but i'll look into it more.

Let me explain why i recommend taking the 4 supplements: Interactions between them. One example is that zinc can help increase the absorption of magnesium. Zinc is known to be essential for the proper functioning of enzymes involved in the absorption and metabolism of magnesium, this means that if an individual is deficient in zinc, magnesium may not be absorbed or utilized as efficiently.

Another example is that vitamin D can help increase the absorption of calcium and magnesium. Vitamin D is required for the proper absorption of calcium from the gastrointestinal tract. It also increases the production of a protein called calbindin, which is essential for the proper transport and utilization of calcium and magnesium.

In addition, Vitamin K2 works together with Vitamin D to promote healthy bones. Vitamin K2 is essential for the proper utilization of calcium, it helps to move calcium out of the bloodstream and into the bones. Vitamin D helps the body absorb calcium and maintain healthy bones. These two vitamins work together to support bone health.

TLDR: zinc and magnesium play important roles in the absorption and metabolism of nutrients like vit D and K2. Therefore, a deficiency in zinc and magnesium can negatively impact the effectiveness of vitamin D and K2. Balance is key.

 

[Deleted member 19453]

Antioxidant ≠ Antioxidant

???

 

[Sondern]

Antioxidant ≠ Antioxidant! Antioxidants neutralize free radicals. There are direct (fruits, juices, supplements) and indirect (enzymes SOD & CAT). Free radicals are produced in the body's own cells. Antioxidants are therefore needed in cells, which can only be achieved by indirect ones. So the focus should always be on increasing the indirect ones.

Why you should increase both nevertheless
Direct antioxidants, such as those found in fruits, juices, and supplements, are molecules that can directly neutralize free radicals. These antioxidants include vitamins C and E, beta-carotene, and other carotenoids.

Indirect antioxidants, such as enzymes like superoxide dismutase (SOD) and catalase (CAT), work by helping to neutralize free radicals before they form or by repairing damage caused by free radicals. These enzymes are produced naturally by the body.

Both direct and indirect antioxidants are important for maintaining cellular health and preventing damage caused by free radicals. Direct antioxidants can neutralize free radicals directly and also can help to protect cells from damage caused by free radicals. Indirect antioxidants can help to neutralize free radicals before they form and also can help to repair damage caused by free radicals. It is important to have a balance of both types of antioxidants in the body, as they work together to protect cells and maintain overall health.

How to increase direct ones:

1. Diet: Eat Fruits and vegetables who are high in vitamins C and E, beta-carotene, and other carotenoids, which are all direct antioxidants
2. Avoiding smoking and excessive alcohol consumption: Smoking and excessive alcohol consumption can deplete the levels of direct antioxidants in the body.
3. Exercise: Regular physical activity can increase the levels of direct antioxidants in the body by reducing the production of free radicals and enhancing the antioxidant defense system
4. Sun exposure: exposure to sunlight can help the body to produce vitamin D, a direct antioxidant. Just dont overdo it.

How to increase the indirect ones (SOD & CAT):

1. Diet: Eating a diet rich in fruits and especially meat (liver/brain) can increase the levels of SOD and CAT in the body
2. Exercise: Regular physical activity has been shown to increase the levels of SOD and CAT in the body. Exercise can also help to reduce the production of free radicals
3. Stress management: Chronic stress can lead to an increase in free radical production and a decrease in the levels of SOD and CAT. Managing stress through techniques such as yoga, meditation, or deep breathing can help to reduce stress levels and boost antioxidant levels

My problem with supplements:

1. Absorption: From natural sources, such as fruits and vegetables, are often better absorbed by the body than those from supplements. This is because the antioxidants in natural sources are typically combined with other beneficial compounds and nutrients that can help with their absorption
2. Interaction with other compounds: Antioxidants in natural sources, such as fruits and vegetables, also interact with other beneficial compounds and nutrients that can enhance their effectiveness. This is not the case with supplements, which may contain only one antioxidant
3. Natural balance: Fruits and vegetables contain a wide variety of antioxidants, which work together to provide maximum benefits. Taking a single antioxidant supplement wont not provide the same level of protection as consuming a variety of antioxidants through natural sources
4. Dosage: Taking too much antioxidant supplement can lead to toxicity

Spoiler: tags

@JohnDoe @hormonetherapy @Dystopian @capybara @newperson @rand anon @sebsyx @Fulgrim @rightfulcel @Hiraeth @Dr. Bruh

Why did you make this thread? Just curious

 

[HerpDerpson]

 

[JohnDoe]

Let me explain why i recommend taking the 4 supplements: Interactions between them. One example is that zinc can help increase the absorption of magnesium. Zinc is known to be essential for the proper functioning of enzymes involved in the absorption and metabolism of magnesium, this means that if an individual is deficient in zinc, magnesium may not be absorbed or utilized as efficiently.

Another example is that vitamin D can help increase the absorption of calcium and magnesium. Vitamin D is required for the proper absorption of calcium from the gastrointestinal tract. It also increases the production of a protein called calbindin, which is essential for the proper transport and utilization of calcium and magnesium.

In addition, Vitamin K2 works together with Vitamin D to promote healthy bones. Vitamin K2 is essential for the proper utilization of calcium, it helps to move calcium out of the bloodstream and into the bones. Vitamin D helps the body absorb calcium and maintain healthy bones. These two vitamins work together to support bone health.

TLDR: zinc and magnesium play important roles in the absorption and metabolism of nutrients like vit D and K2. Therefore, a deficiency in zinc and magnesium can negatively impact the effectiveness of vitamin D and K2. Balance is key.

Oops seems like i somehow missed this reply
I personally take d3+k2, zinc + vitamin c, diosmin+hesperedine (blood circulation tablets, mainly for my hemorrhoids but they help with other stuff too i guess). I've been recommended to take Magnesium by quite a few people but there seems to be different types of magnesium you can purchase online so need to look into that and see which one is actually legit.
I agree that vitamin d should be taken with k2 to increase absorption but also prevent aging, calcium being stripped from bones and calcification.
However i am not so sure about the d3+k2 tablets and supplements on amazon and general stores. I think D3 made from lanolin should be used in the liquid form and so you would have to either not supplement k2 since liquid vit d has better absorption rate or you would need to supplement high quality k2 mk7 separately. I use zinc + vit c capsules i bought for cheap from amazon but not sure about the bioavailability and whether they're even worth taking. When i have money i'll have to research the most effective way of taking zinc and not sure if i'll take vit c. Vit c aka ascorbic acid i intended to take with hydrolyzed collagen for hair, skin, collagen and general health with immune system. Ideally i would get a blood test beforehand though. I try to eat lots of fruits on a daily basis, really good for your body, gut microbiome, your skin and overall health.
Last time i had a blood test i was severely deficient in vitamin d because i didn't get any sun but everything else seemed to be fine. So not sure if supplementing zinc/magnesium is worth it if you aren't deficient.
Danny roddy has a youtube channel on a lot of these topics and much more. He talks about vitamins, pufas, hair loss (he has an interesting theory relating to hair loss having a connection to thyroid function and more), and other important topics. I also have been meaning to research raypeat and everything that goes on in that forum and much more.

https://www.youtube.com/@dannyroddy/videos

It really is surprising the amount of information you can find on the internet and then you can further verify that info with clinical studies/etc to make sure it's not bogus. Good thread btw, great stuff.

 

[JohnDoe]

just take vit d supps instead of sacrificing collagen

I disagree, the sun has so many benefits ranging from vitamin d to affecting your mood, studies showing people living in sunnier climates being happier, the list goes on and on. I think the sun is essential for humans and we just need to not overdo it because most if not everything will be harmful if taken in too much, all things should be balanced.
I live in the UK where it's raining/cold/cloudy and no sun majority of the year and the moment i go to spain or any country with some decent sun, my happiness levels skyrocket, my depression disappears and much more.

 

[gribsufer1]

I disagree, the sun has so many benefits ranging from vitamin d to affecting your mood, studies showing people living in sunnier climates being happier, the list goes on and on. I think the sun is essential for humans and we just need to not overdo it because most if not everything will be harmful if taken in too much, all things should be balanced.
I live in the UK where it's raining/cold/cloudy and no sun majority of the year and the moment i go to spain or any country with some decent sun, my happiness levels skyrocket, my depression disappears and much more.

im sure ugandans are much happier than swedes due to sun

 

[gribsufer1]

I disagree, the sun has so many benefits ranging from vitamin d to affecting your mood, studies showing people living in sunnier climates being happier, the list goes on and on. I think the sun is essential for humans and we just need to not overdo it because most if not everything will be harmful if taken in too much, all things should be balanced.
I live in the UK where it's raining/cold/cloudy and no sun majority of the year and the moment i go to spain or any country with some decent sun, my happiness levels skyrocket, my depression disappears and much more.

midday sun is very strong here

 

[JohnDoe]

midday sun is very strong here

You mean in the UK? i wouldn't know because i'm a NEET who doesn't leave the house. The UK sucks.

im sure ugandans are much happier than swedes due to sun

You're going to extremes here, comparing a 3rd world country to a 1st world country with only sun being the factor. Sun is essential, anything else is cope. No one is telling you to stand in the sun for hours and bake yourself.

 

[tinderhacker]

I disagree, the sun has so many benefits ranging from vitamin d to affecting your mood, studies showing people living in sunnier climates being happier, the list goes on and on. I think the sun is essential for humans and we just need to not overdo it because most if not everything will be harmful if taken in too much, all things should be balanced.
I live in the UK where it's raining/cold/cloudy and no sun majority of the year and the moment i go to spain or any country with some decent sun, my happiness levels skyrocket, my depression disappears and much more.

You can invest in a UVB lamp and gain all the benefits of the sun. UVA is the one that ages you anyways so you get the best or both worlds.

My d3 is low aswell, around 17 nmol/L and I’m trying to get it to atleast 35-40. I saw some uvb lamps on Amazon and many people went from below 20 borderline deficient to over 60 within a couple weeks. So I’m stoked. Just wanted to share so you know you have another option.

 

[JohnDoe]

You can invest in a UVB lamp and gain all the benefits of the sun. UVA is the one that ages you anyways so you get the best or both worlds.

My d3 is low aswell, around 17 nmol/L and I’m trying to get it to atleast 35-40. I saw some uvb lamps on Amazon and many people went from below 20 borderline deficient to over 60 within a couple weeks. So I’m stoked. Just wanted to share so you know you have another option.

Nah some lamp isn't going to replicate the fucking sun, sorry it's just not the same. D3 liquid made from lanolin supplement in the winter is a necessity. Most people are deficient. I was severely deficient.

 

[tinderhacker]

Nah some lamp isn't going to replicate the fucking sun, sorry it's just not the same. D3 liquid made from lanolin supplement in the winter is a necessity. Most people are deficient. I was severely deficient.

It’s not just any lamp. It’s a concentrated wavelength of light and it’s used specifically for people with extreme vitamin d deficiency (navy, submarines, people with vitiligo, nursing homes, and even newborn babies)
It actually increases d levels in the body faster than the sun because sun only emits 1% of its light as uvb and the rest as uva (uva is responsible for tanned skin). Whereas the uvb lamps are concentrated and emit 40% of the light as uvb. It’s also used on reptiles that people keep in glass tanks and the mechanism of action is the same.

There’s literally high iq people on raypeat forum talking about it. The same forum you referenced above. And raypeat himself used a uvb lamp.

This is not to even mention the countless peer reviewed and replicated research. And lastly they are also fda approved brands of these lamps that are used (as I said above) by the navy and nursing homes.

 

[Deleted member 22354]

It’s not just any lamp. It’s a concentrated wavelength of light and it’s used specifically for people with extreme vitamin d deficiency (navy, submarines, people with vitiligo, nursing homes, and even newborn babies)
It actually increases d levels in the body faster than the sun because sun only emits 1% of its light as uvb and the rest as uva (uva is responsible for tanned skin). Whereas the uvb lamps are concentrated and emit 40% of the light as uvb. It’s also used on reptiles that people keep in glass tanks and the mechanism of action is the same.

There’s literally high iq people on raypeat forum talking about it. The same forum you referenced above. And raypeat himself used a uvb lamp.
View attachment 2070045
View attachment 2070046View attachment 2070047

This is not to even mention the countless peer reviewed and replicated research. And lastly they are also fda approved brands of these lamps that are used (as I said above) by the navy and nursing homes.

can you link/name good ones?

 

[tinderhacker]

can you link/name good ones?

This one is one of if not the best brand. FDA approved and clinically tested on people with severe vitamin d deficiency.

It’s expensive but if you want the best this is it.

Vitamin D from low-cost UVB lamps | VitaminDWiki

Science-based Vitamin D

vitamindwiki.com

Then below that I would reference ^^^this website where you can find many cheaper and as good alternatives.


And below that if you’re povertycel than you can literally just buy a generic light fixture and a uvb bulb from here