How to achieve localized fat loss in the face or systemically in body, topical/oral administration of Cirsium oligophyllum (CE)

[LVZZO]

Localized fat reduction is something many here seek, specially in certain regions of the face
Scientifically speaking, you want products that exhibit lipolysis-promoting activity in subcutaneous adipocytes
Topical application of products can achieve this, although I would advise further researching and experimentation
You don't want to get anywhere near the eye region with these

Plant extract of Cirsium oligophyllum (CE)

By the topical application of 2% of this extract to rats for 7 days, weight of subcutaneous fat in the treated skin was reduced by 23.2%.

Caffeine

CE-induced lipolysis was synergistically enhanced by caffeine

Oral administration - systemic fat reduction protocol

• 3 or 10% CE aqueous solution (0.5 ml) twice daily (in ~160g Wistar rats)
• For humans per kg of body weight (math)
  • 1kg / 0,160kg x 0,5ml = 4ml (for each kg)
  • 3-10% (w/v) of CE aqueous solution = 3g/100ml - 10g/100ml
  • For each kg you need 4 ml --> 3g x 4ml / 100ml - 10g x 4ml / 100ml
  • = 0,12g/4ml - 0,4g/4ml
  • = 0,12g dry extract/kg body weight- 0,4g dry extract/kg body weight
  • = 0.12g x (1lb / 2.20462lbs) - 0.4g x (1lb / 2.20462lbs) = 0.054432 g/lb - 0.181439 g/lb
• So if you weight 75kg ~165,35lbs
  • You need to consume from 9-30g of dry CE extract (part of plant unknown; purity of active compounds unknown)
  • Below I saw a supplement that included servings of 750mg of CE in the formulation (from raw nutrition)
  • The presented doses might induce toxicity, be careful

Results after 32 days:

The peroral administration of CE inhibited body weight gain and fat accumulation. While food intake during the administration period did not differ among the groups, the final body weight was reduced by 6.6% on average in the group given 10% CE, and the degree of reduction depended on the CE concentration. Body weight reduction was possibly due to enhanced energy consumption, since CE intake showed no toxicity, such as a decrease in food intake or diarrhea.

Topical administration - localized fat reduction protocol

• 0.05, 0.2, 0.5, 1, or 2% CE (0.2 ml) was applied to the shaved area (about 5 x 5 cm) twice daily

Results after 7 days, yes 7 days:

Subcutaneous fat weight on the back, the area of agent application, was significantly lower in the groups given CE at concentrations ≥ 0.5% as compared to the control group; the 2% CE group showed a mean reduction of 23.2%. The extent of reduction depended on the CE concentration.

Study:

Body fat mass reduction and up-regulation of uncoupling protein by novel lipolysis-promoting plant extract

Extract sources:
In the study authors say they used:

Dried plants of Cirsium oligophyllum within Compositae, a type of thistle purchased from Tochimoto Tenkaido (Osaka, Japan)

Plant extract of Cirsium oligophyllum (CE) is a type of thistle, not to be confused with the "milk thistle" or "silymarin" (Silybum marianum) more commercially available for liver function, although it might provide similar effects

Dietary silymarin supplementation significantly reduced the elevated intraperitoneal fat index in grass carp fed with high-lipid diets. Data suggest that silymarin suppressed lipid accumulation in grass carp both in vitro and in vivo, and the effect might be due to an influence on the expression of adipogenesis factors and ROS production partly associated with effects on antioxidant capability.

Silymarin inhibits adipogenesis in the adipocytes in grass carp Ctenopharyngodon idellus in vitro and in vivo - Fish Physiology and Biochemistry

In this study, two experiments were performed to explore the function of silymarin in adipogenesis in grass carp (Ctenopharyngodon idellus) using in vitro and in vivo models. In experiment 1, differentiated grass carp pre-adipocytes were treated with silymarin for 6 days. Treatment with 100 μg...

link.springer.com

It was confirmed that increases in body weight and fat mass in the SILY group were significantly inhibited. Moreover, the muscle mass in SILY mice was significantly higher than that in the HFD group. Silymarin could prevent not only obesity but also muscle atrophy.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/jmf.2021.K.0175

Or even confused as "japanese thistle" Cirsium japonicum" although it might provide similar effects

Chloroform-soluble fraction of C. japonicum leaves showed anti-adipogenic effect in adipocytesvia regulation of adipogenic enzymes and transcription factors.

https://applbiolchem.springeropen.com/counter/pdf/10.1007/s13765-013-3216-4.pdf

Syringin attenuates adipocyte differentiation, adipogenesis, and promotes lipid metabolism; thus, syringin may potentially serve as a therapeutic candidate for treatment of obesity.

Syringin: A Phenylpropanoid Glycoside Compound in Cirsium brevicaule A. GRAY Root Modulates Adipogenesis

Cirsium brevicaule A. GRAY is a wild perennial herb, and its roots (CbR) have traditionally been used as both food and medicine on the Japanese islands of Okinawa and Amami. The present study evaluated the antiadipogenic effect of CbR using mouse embryonic fibroblast cell line 3T3-L1 from JCRB...

www.mdpi.com

Cirsium japonicum extract and its main component cirsimaritin reduced the severity of liver injury in the experimental mouse model of MAFLD by inhibiting hepatic steatosis, oxidative stress, inflammation, and liver fibrosis on high-fat diet (HFD)-induced metabolic dysfunction-associated fatty liver disease.

Ameliorative effects of Cirsium japonicum extract and main component cirsimaritin in mice model of high-fat diet-induced metabolic dysfunction-associated fatty liver disease - PubMed

The objective of this study was to determine biological effects of <i>Cirsium japonicum</i> extract and its main component cirsimaritin on high-fat diet (HFD)-induced metabolic dysfunction-associated fatty liver disease (MAFLD) in a mouse model. Mice were fed with a HFD to induce MAFLD and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here are some products that include CE that I could find:

Oral:

Manufacture of Cirsium Oligophyllum Extract-Herbpowders.com

Product Name: Cirsium Oligophyllum Extract, Botanical Name: Cirsium Oligophyllum, Specification: Powder Extract, Country of Origin: China

www.herbpowders.com

Oxy XR 60 caps

Rx Labs Oxy XR 60 caps fat burner

bodyshock.pro

Norcodrene

A product worthy of your respect Hi, my name is CJ. I’m a certified personal trainer, a veteran of the United States Marine Corps, and a competitive bodybuilder. Just like you, I’ve been in the fitness game for quite some time. You’d probably agree that we’ve seen quite a few supplements and...

xtremebody-nutrition-2.myshopify.com

RAW Burn Improves Fat Loss, Focus, and Energy

RAW Burn is a potent thermogenic that's formulated to boost fat loss, focus, and energy. RAW Burn won't do the work for you, but it will definitely help!

blog.priceplow.com

Chaos Cutz -Chaos Crew - Gorilla Supplements Ltd

Chaos Cutz is a strong fat burner that increases thermogenesis, controls appetite, mood and increasing energy levels to a high level to burn more calories. Supplement Facts Typical Values Per 33g (1 scoop) Chromium (as Chromium Picolinate) 250mcg Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin) 1mg...

gorilla-supplements.co.uk

https://crossthelimits.co.uk/p/usp-labs-oxyelite-pro-extreme-diet-aid/

Topical:

Exotherm

Exotherm is the most powerful Transdermal fat burner on the market. Formulated with natural ingredients to reduce estrogen, boost testosterone levels and burn fat, Exotherm is the perfect NON stimulant fat burner and estro blocker to help you reach your fitness goals. By using Exotherm, you can...

blacklionresearch.com

Exotherm (Fat Shredder)

Exotherm is an AI but its much more. We have added fat burners to it so you get more than just aromatase inhibition. This stuff is like a blowtorch. Exceptional fat loss potential.

www.jwsupplements.co.uk

https://www.amazon (dot) com/ATP-Science-Subcut-Transdermal-Cream/dp/B01N79EJYL/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

More research on similar products can ofc be found through already formulated and commercially available products, scientific studies and patents that include compounds that show lipolysis activity.

US5698199A - Lipolysis acceleration method - Google Patents

The present invention provides a lipolysis acceleration method which comprises orally administering a thistle-series or pepper-family plant, or an extract thereof; or dermatologically applying it by local administration or as a bath medicine composition. According to the method of the present...

patents.google.com

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/1b/a7/c7/7376af7cc00d97/US20140080847A1.pdf

US7935367B2 - Compositions and methods for increasing adipose metabolism, lipolysis or lipolytic metabolism via thermogenesis - Google Patents

A composition and method for promoting weight loss through the mutual and simultaneously to promotion lipolysis, the expenditure of energy stored in the body as fat, the inhibition of lipolysis as well as affording the body of an individual protection from reactive oxygen species resulting from...

patents.google.com

JP3814419B2 - Lipolysis promoter and slimming skin cosmetics - Google Patents

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jocd.14853

Also I would be careful with some compounds present in these formulations
You might induce hepatotoxicity or other types of adverse effects

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6380172/

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/dd09/1419b1df16f31d79fd8585df0d0b66e7f9b3.pdf

 

[Deleted member 23359]

wtf is blud talking about

 

[looksmidder]

extremely interesting if this is true. i’m 15 and in a caloric surplus, (to maximise growth ofc, about 3k calories daily) could i lose bodyfat despite that with this? and would there be any drawbacks for growth?

also do you know if the topical version affects deep fat/fat pads?

 

[LVZZO]

extremely interesting if this is true. i’m 15 and in a caloric surplus, (to maximise growth ofc, about 3k calories daily) could i lose bodyfat despite that with this? and would there be any drawbacks for growth?

also do you know if the topical version affects deep fat/fat pads?

I mean you can just buy a thermogenic supplement, that should provide some fat burning / increased metabolism, the point is that CE showed insane potential in a study and I decided to some more research.
From a study I mentioned earlier, not from CE extract but possible similar effects:

Silymarin is found in Silybum marianum. We investigated the effect of silymarin on muscle atrophy in obese mice. The experimental mice were divided into three groups: CON, normal diet; HFD, 60% high-fat diet (HF); and SILY: 50 mg silymarin +60% HF. It was confirmed that increases in body weight and fat mass in the SILY group were significantly inhibited. Moreover, the muscle mass in SILY mice was significantly higher than that in the HFD group. The grip strength in HFD group was significantly reduced, whereas in the SILY group it was higher than that in HFD group. In HFD mice, the mRNA levels of protein degradation factors (muscle ring-finger protein 1 [MuRF-1] and Atrogin-1) were increased and protein synthesis factors (phosphoinositide 3-kinase [PI3K] and Akt) were decreased. However, silymarin was found to elevate the degradation factors as compared with HFD group, whereas it reduced the synthesis factors. The results suggest that silymarin could prevent not only obesity but also muscle atrophy.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/jmf.2021.K.0175

Subcutaneous fat is what burned by topicals, visceral fat is not affected, it is reduced a bit by oral administration, like the study says.
Subcutaneous fat is more difficult to reduce I think, visceral can be reduced by caloric deficit, as shown by picrel, didn't research tho

 

[looksmidder]

I mean you can just buy a thermogenic supplement, that should provide some fat burning / increased metabolism, the point is that CE showed insane potential in a study and I decided to some more research.
From a study I mentioned earlier, not from CE extract but possible similar effects:

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/jmf.2021.K.0175

what thermogenic supp would you recommend to lower bf while bulking? ie which would be strong enough.

also could i take a thermogenic orally while also using CE topically?

 

[HalfGypsyMogger]

extremely interesting if this is true. i’m 15 and in a caloric surplus, (to maximise growth ofc, about 3k calories daily) could i lose bodyfat despite that with this? and would there be any drawbacks for growth?

also do you know if the topical version affects deep fat/fat pads?

U should heightmaxx hghmaxx androgenmaxx at ur age bro, u will thank me in 3 years if i dont die

 

[looksmidder]

U should heightmaxx hghmaxx androgenmaxx at ur age bro, u will thank me in 3 years if i dont die

yeah i’m doing all 3 already but i’m probably gonna end up gaining some weight in the process which will fucking nuke my confidence for the next few years

 

[Deleted member 29078]

wtf is blud talking about

Fat niggas really be doing anything instead of working out

 

[LVZZO]

what thermogenic supp would you recommend to lower bf while bulking? ie which would be strong enough.

I can't give an informed opinion, I just presented some supplements.
Foods that promote thermogenic, vascular dilatation and increase ATP metabolism might also provide good effects with additional benefits.
B complex vitamins see to be important in the metabolism, some of these supplements mega dose on b12
Also

Low Serum Vitamin B-12 and Folate Concentrations and Low Thiamin and Riboflavin Intakes Are Inversely Associated with Greater Adiposity in Mexican American Children

Low Serum Vitamin B-12 and Folate Concentrations and Low Thiamin and Riboflavin Intakes Are Inversely Associated with Greater Adiposity in Mexican American Children

Abstract. Background: Micronutrient status may be a contributing factor to the development of childhood obesity in many industrializing countries passing the nu

academic.oup.com

So addressing the basics, first like diet and possible nutrient deficiencies should be the priority

also could i take a thermogenic orally while also using CE topically?

Yes.

 

[LVZZO]

Fat niggas really be doing anything instead of working out

I'm around 13% BF
2% CE (0.2 ml) in 5x5cm twice daily reduced subcutaneous fat by 23.2% in 7 days
If a formulation produced these effects irl that would the holy grail of fat loss.

 

[looksmidder]

the exotherm topical you listed doesn’t say how much CE it uses, would it still be worth getting that?

 

[Lihito]

Mogger thread in the sea of shitposting

Followed

 

[Sanguinius]

Bumping high effort informative thread because there’s value here

 

[LVZZO]

Update

So if you weight 75kg ~165,35lbs

• You need to consume from 9-30g of dry CE extract (part of plant unknown; purity of active compounds unknown)

According to my interpretation of the literature, supplementation dose from rats to humans is not based 1:1 in weight
For rats around 150g, around 160g used in the thread study you should divide the dose by 6.2
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4804402/

So to correct
9-30g/6.2 of dry CE extract = 1.4-4.8g of CE for 75kg of bw (twice daily)
I think this is the human equivalent dose to the one used in the study

the exotherm topical you listed doesn’t say how much CE it uses, would it still be worth getting that?

If you are willing to spend the money
Facial exercises including masseter exercises are probably better (long term)

 

[Struggler03]

INJECT THE CHEMICAL GOY

 

[LVZZO]

INJECT THE CHEMICAL GOY

The mulatto white supremacist fears the jewish aryan chad

 

[Kater Maxxing]

Dnrd