MSE lengthens face, any way to prevent this?

[spark]

 

[DutchPrettyBoy]

don't think so. you're litteraly playing with bones. also i don't think it really matters because it also widens your face.

 

[Deleted member 3020]

bro it lengthens by one mm and widens your face like hell

 

[BlindMaxxer]

bro it lengthens by one mm and widens your face like hell

 

[curryslayerordeath]

seems like a girl wrote this right? having a higher top heavy face is a very good aesthetic outcome for any male (look at the zygos of most models) and the discrepancy is ez fixed thru jaw surgery afterwards.

idg how her face got longer tho? every person that had mse done that ive talked said it appeared short but that could just be a cancelling illusion from width increase.

 

[Deleted member 3020]

seems like a girl wrote this right? having a higher top heavy face is a very good aesthetic outcome for any male (look at the zygos of most models) and the discrepancy is ez fixed thru jaw surgery afterwards.

idg how her face got longer tho? every person that had mse done that ive talked said it appeared short but that could just be a cancelling illusion from width increase.

yes a girl wrote this.

 

[hairyballscel]

bro it lengthens by one mm and widens your face like hell

Couldn't you shorten it by inducing CCW?

Shorter midface was a big reason why i was getting MSE,

 

[Deleted member 3020]

Couldn't you shorten it by inducing CCW?

Shorter midface was a big reason why i was getting MSE,

mse and fm is not good for CCW rotation. It doesn’t shorten midface but it increases facial width which might create a better illusion for your long midface

 

[curryslayerordeath]

yes a girl wrote this.

I guess that kinda makes sense that she doesn’t like it then, flanged zygos on a girl would look weird/masc af without the right harmony

Couldn't you shorten it by inducing CCW?

Shorter midface was a big reason why i was getting MSE,

sadly doesn’t seem very possible

 

[hairyballscel]

mse and fm is not good for CCW rotation. It doesn’t shorten midface but it increases facial width which might create a better illusion for your long midface

hmmm tbh my midface isn't long anyway, my ratio is 1.08, but i'm aiming for 1.2

What do you think is the best protocol for CCW and achieving a shorter midface?

 

[Deleted member 3020]

hmmm tbh my midface isn't long anyway, my ratio is 1.08, but i'm aiming for 1.2

What do you think is the best protocol for CCW and achieving a shorter midface?

leforts

 

[curryslayerordeath]

hmmm tbh my midface isn't long anyway, my ratio is 1.08, but i'm aiming for 1.2

What do you think is the best protocol for CCW and achieving a shorter midface?

Why would u want to shorten a 1.08 midface lmao? On most people that’s more compact than ideal. Didn’t u also say u had low fwhr, very contradictory?

 

[hairyballscel]

leforts

FUAAAAAAAAARK

 

[hairyballscel]

Why would u want to shorten a 1.08 midface lmao? On most people that’s more compact than ideal. Didn’t u also say u had low fwhr, very contradictory?

My midface ratio is 1.08 but my fwhr is 1.6, my fwhr is low/subhuman due to my high set eyebrows and terrible bizygomatic width, those don't influence your midface ratio

And i want to shorten it because i just think it would look better tbh, doesn't seem compact to me. 1.2 would look very DOM.

 

[spark]

mse and fm is not good for CCW rotation. It doesn’t shorten midface but it increases facial width which might create a better illusion for your long midface

So is lefort really the only way to achieve a ccw rotation?

 

[retard]

Couldn't you shorten it by inducing CCW?

Shorter midface was a big reason why i was getting MSE,

while mse on its own doesnt shorten midface, you can manipulate the bones easily due to weak sutures, incisor chewing with mse would do work for midface reduction

 

[Deleted member 3020]

So is lefort really the only way to achieve a ccw rotation?

a really good way would also be MARPE positioned in the anterior maxilla and pulling upward (30° force vector) like this picture
And simulation (not real) says it will look like this

 

[spark]

a really good way would also be MARPE positioned in the anterior maxilla and pulling upward (30° force vector) like this picture
And simulation (not real) says it will look like this

MSE is just a type of MARPE right? Also where did you get this idea from? Has this even ever been done before?

 

[Incoming]

a really good way would also be MARPE positioned in the anterior maxilla and pulling upward (30° force vector) like this picture
And simulation (not real) says it will look like this

But who would be willing to install this. It’s hard enough trying to find someone willing to give mse

 

[Deleted member 3020]

MSE is just a type of MARPE right? Also where did you get this idea from? Has this even ever been done before?

This was from a study by Won Moon. Yes, MSE is a type of MARPE. I have no idea, but it looks like a good idea for CCW rotation, although we may need a good suture split for faster movement

 

[Deleted member 3020]

But who would be willing to install this. It’s hard enough trying to find someone willing to give mse

Idk tbh. Most orthodontists use MSE, if they want to do a mini implanted expansion instead of the outdated shitty MARPE which involves unparalleled splits. This idea is most likely never gonna happen. So we mind as well just say leforts are the only good way to get CCW rotation

 

[spark]

This was from a study by Won Moon. Yes, MSE is a type of MARPE. I have no idea, but it looks like a good idea for CCW rotation, although we may need a good suture split for faster movement

What is the facemask really for if it can't create a CCW rotation?

 

[Deleted member 3020]

What is the facemask really for if it can't create a CCW rotation?

It’s for class III patients (underbites). But Dr. Ting told me that the lower jaw auto rotates when the maxilla goes forward. But idk if it actually does. I convinced my doctor it does, still don’t know if I should wear it, maybe I’ll get lower jaw surgery for free with my huge overjet jfl

 

[retard]

What is the facemask really for if it can't create a CCW rotation?

misread question

 

[spark]

It’s for class III patients (underbites). But Dr. Ting told me that the lower jaw auto rotates when the maxilla goes forward. But idk if it actually does. I convinced my doctor it does, still don’t know if I should wear it, maybe I’ll get lower jaw surgery for free with my huge overjet jfl

At what angle would you pull? I have heard some people claim that since the MSE is more at the back of maxilla it should be pulled at a downward angle. Sounds kind of like bs to me but I really am clueless. I have never seen anyone pull at an upward angle while using MSE.

 

[Deleted member 3020]

At what angle would you pull? I have heard some people claim that since the MSE is more at the back of maxilla it should be pulled at a downward angle. Sounds kind of like bs to me but I really am clueless. I have never seen anyone pull at an upward angle while using MSE.

-30° to the occlusal plane. results are slight anterior tipping, said on the study this is the best angle for posterior micro implant fm’s (mse)

 

[000]

View attachment 495330

It increases IPD so the midface isn’t going to be that affected.

 

[DownUnderCopeAttack]

Only more proof for the lefort maxxers on here.
I still want MSE.

 

[spark]

-30° to the occlusal plane. results are slight anterior tipping, said on the study this is the best angle for posterior micro implant fm’s (mse)

I am looking at the paper

The efficacy of maxillary protraction protocols with the micro-implant-assisted rapid palatal expander (MARPE) and the novel N2 mini-implant—a finite element study - Progress in Orthodontics

Background Maxillary protraction with the novel N2 mini-implant- and micro-implant-assisted rapid palatal expander (MARPE) can potentially provide significant skeletal effects without surgery, even in older patients where conventional facemask therapy has limited skeletal effects. However, the...

progressinorthodontics.springeropen.com

And they never even try anything other pulling downwards (except for that one you posted earlier)

They also clearly prove that the more downward pressure, the more downward growth (-30 vs -45)

This should make it obvious we should be pulling at a higher than -30 degree angle.

 

[Bromose]

while mse on its own doesnt shorten midface, you can manipulate the bones easily due to weak sutures, incisor chewing with mse would do work for midface reduction

The zygos only bend during fast expansion right?

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Couldn't you shorten it by inducing CCW?

Shorter midface was a big reason why i was getting MSE,

MARPE can give ccw rotation

 

[hairyballscel]

MARPE can give ccw rotation

yeah im considering that, I might get MSE and just have a facepuller that only comes in contact with the anterior/front palate. My midface isn't long anyway

 

[Deleted member 5385]

yeah im considering that, I might get MSE and just have a facepuller that only comes in contact with the anterior/front palate. My midface isn't long anyway

Me too, but it could be more compact either

Such movement would be able to shorten midface by 5-6mm at least

 

[Deleted member 1862]

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT YOU GUYS ARE SO FUKIN RETARDED

 

[spark]

Me too, but it could be more compact either
View attachment 496168
Such movement would be able to shorten midface by 5-6mm at least

It would be enough to shorten it by 2mm in my case

 

[hairyballscel]

Me too, but it could be more compact either
View attachment 496168
Such movement would be able to shorten midface by 5-6mm at least

fuck man that simulation looks amazing, srs goals tbh

 

[Deleted member 5385]

fuck man that simulation looks amazing, srs goals tbh

True but its only available with MARPE since MSE can't be placed at the front of palate

 

[hairyballscel]

True but its only available with MARPE since MSE can't be placed at the front of palate

Do you think i'd be able to get MARPE at 45/44mm IMW? I'm thinking to get around 10mm of MSE mostly for a wider face, my current IMW is 34mm. Then MARPE for CCW.

 

[spark]

True but its only available with MARPE since MSE can't be placed at the front of palate

How do we know MSE can't produce anything remotely similar? The study only used downward force with MSE and also showed that the -45 degree did a lot more lengthening than the -30 degree force:

 

[Deleted member 5385]

How do we know MSE can't produce anything remotely similar? The study only used downward force with MSE and also showed that the -45 degree did a lot more lengthening than the -30 degree force:
View attachment 496224

MSE can't be placed at front because MSE is created to split all sutures in the back of maxilla when MARPE only give "V" shape split at the front. Theoretically MARPE is worse than MSE but on my case I need ccw do much and unfortunately MSE can't give me that.

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Do you think i'd be able to get MARPE at 45/44mm IMW? I'm thinking to get around 10mm of MSE mostly for a wider face, my current IMW is 34mm. Then MARPE for CCW.

I was thinking the same-first split sutures with MSE then remove and get MARPE at the front. I would be possible but probably MSDO will be needed and I don't know how many mm you can widen without joint problems

 

[hairyballscel]

I was thinking the same-first split sutures with MSE then remove and get MARPE at the front. I would be possible but probably MSDO will be needed and I don't know how many mm you can widen without joint problems

https://looksmax.org/threads/the-ac...lar-widening-from-maxillary-expansion.147971/

This could help tbh

 

[Deleted member 3020]

nvm confused

which one would be mse though?
@curryslayerordeath @Dr Shekelberg @retard @Elias
If mse is on the middle of the palate. We should pull upward right @spark
Fuarkkkk I am so confused

 

[Deleted member 3020]

nvm confused

which one would be mse though?
@curryslayerordeath @Dr Shekelberg @retard @Elias
If mse is on the middle of the palate. We should pull upward right @spark
Fuarkkkk I am so confused

Bruh mse has 4 screws, and placed in the middle and the back maxilla. So where tf should we pull wtf??

 

[Deleted member 3020]

Final thought, no counterclockwise rotation is possible with mse and fm. Upward movement of the maxilla is possible with a positive vector. End of discussion.

 

[spark]

I was thinking the same-first split sutures with MSE then remove and get MARPE at the front. I would be possible but probably MSDO will be needed and I don't know how many mm you can widen without joint problems

You can just install it as an anchor for the facemask without any additional splitting.

 

[SPFromNY914]

bro it lengthens by one mm and widens your face like hell

That's a good tradeoff

 

[orthochadic]

MSE and Facemask — JAWHACKS

This post demonstrates the MSE + Facemask combination. FYI I have been more active on YouTube than on the blog. For more frequent updates, please subscribe to my YouTube channel. For example, I posted this video several days ago:

jawhacks.com

Ronald ead had an mse but the facemask he showed on his blog is still going upward. (He didn't use it because his lower jaw was already retruded compared to the upper one due to AGGA. )
Anyway

 

[orthochadic]

due to a previous agga*

 

[SPFromNY914]

View attachment 495330

This is why you're supposed to do MSE+Facemask THEN combine it with IMDO or Bimax for optimal results aesthetically and functionally