The Randle Cycle - Possible answer to Hormonal Issues, Skin Issues, Mood Issues, ...

[sexsexsexsex]

NOTE: I don't have the time or patience to write everything about this now. I have skipped on writing a lot of things. If you have questions of any nature, leave them in the replies.

%----------------------------------%

The Randle Cycle, also called The Glucose-Fatty Acid Cycle describes the interaction between the 2 main dietary energy sources humans eat: Fat and Carbohydrates, more exactly the fact that they cannot both be used as an energy source.

When a person consumes both Fat and Carbohydrates in a single meal, more than half of both will be stored as fat (with a high percentage of Glucose being converted into Fat trough De Novo Lipogenesis and preferentially and stored in the Liver, causing NAFLD). That is because:
1) Fat inhibits the ability for Glucose to be used as an energy source: This is bypassed by exercise, thanks to the presence of Catecholamines (Adrenaline, Cortisol, ...) in the blood. If a person starts fasting, none of the stored Glycogen will be used as energy until all of the stored fat is completely used up.
2) Fat impairs the absorbtion of Glucose in the muscle by more than half

The consumption of both Fat and Carbohydrates leads to:
1) Impaired energy production and increased fat depositing
2) Widespread cell death due to Mitochondrial Damage
3) Increased inflammation troughout the body:
3.1) Hypothalamic Inflammation: Lowers the release of Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (Growth Hormone), Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone (TSH -> T3 + T4 and Prolactin), Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (FSH/LH -> Androgens/Estrogens), Prolactin Inhibiting Hormone (Dopamine), Corticotropin Releasing Hormone (ACTH), Vasopressin, ... which will also lead to the subsequent decrease of the number of receptors for most of these hormones (The ones released by the Pituitary) to decrease in the body.
It will also subsequently lead to decreased production of Collagen, Elastin (GH, Estrogen) and maintenance of blood water and mineral content (Vasopressin), which combined to the increased inflammation will decrease skin quality.
The lack of Androgens and Estrogen
3.2) Reduced insulin sensitivity
3.3) Reduced Albumin production, thus increased bioavailable Androgens and Estrogens, and other Sterols and Fatty Acids; increased Thyroid levels, etc.
3.4) Can possibly affect mood. It has been shown that anti-inflamatory drugs can improve symptoms of Depression which implies a link between the two
...

So which should you consume?:
A diet with very low to no fat will allow a person to lose weight while eating a relatively high amount of food and will greatly lower inflammation in the body, explaining the N=1 reports from people reporting quick weight loss, lowered depression and anxiety as well as the numerous scientific papers showing a short-term low-fat vegan diet reversing Insulin Resistance, Heart Disease, etc.

There are a few problems with this, however:
- You will still only use your body fat as an energy source for most of the body, but it will be impaired by Insulin in the short-term, although your sensitivity to it will be increased thanks to lowered inflammation and it may not be fully noticeable
- You will be deficient in many fat-soluble vitamins which are found in animal fats (I do not support the consumption of plant oils to anybody as they are inflammatory, contain an increased level of Omega 6s which should be kept as low as possible and cannot be offset by increased Omega 3s, as some would say, and they lack many nutrients that only animal fats have, or do contain them but in different forms with little to no use to the body): Vitamin A as Retinyl Esters, Vitamin D3, Vitamin K2, Vitamin E, Omega 3 as DHA/EPA, 6 as ARA, 7, 9 Animal FAs, Saturated and Unsaturated Animal FAs, Cholesterol

A diet with very low to no carbohydrates offers the same benefits as a low-fat diet, with the increased benefits of
- Acquiring all needed macro and micro nutrients required
- Not interrupting production of of hormones (which is influenced both ways by Insulin and other hormones strongly triggered by Carbohydrate consumption)
- Having stable energy troughout the day
- Having increased fat-burning and body temperature due to the effects of Fat in the Mitochondria (Causing a loss of energy causing heat and an increased caloric need).
- Avoiding many Xenoestrogens from plants and other food wrapping that will cause an imbalance of Estrogens/Androgens, possibly even lowering testosterone production in some cases due to Estrogen's effects interaction with the Hypothalamus and its control of the release of more Gonadotropins. Also reduced feminization of men in growing children.
...

You will also be able to create all Glucose you need trough Gluconeogenesis from Fat (Protein will only be used once there is no body or dietary Fat to be converted) and no dietary Carbohydrates are required, although it takes 1-2 weeks for your cells to adapt to the new energy source.

Does this apply to everyone?:
Clearly it does not. We have barely started to understand more about nutrition and how it affects the body mechanistically. There is no reason to doubt there are people out there with increased tolerances to this sort of feeding patterns, possibly an adaptation to the person's ancestors (parents, grandparents, ...) having similar mixed diets. There might also be other certain genes involved in this, but we also know very little about genetics at this point.

If you find that a mixed diet does not work for you and you want to see if there is anything to the kind of diet I am promoting here, you can try it out. Otherwise, you still have information in this thread trough which you can continue your own research if you wish to.

Real Life Examples:

Fruitarians
Fruitarians only eat Sugar. According to the findings surrounding The Randal Cycle, Glucose cannot be used by most of the body's cells and is only used as a fuel source during exercise, trough Cathecholamines, so the body will go a fasting-like state where the body fat of the person is used as energy, leaving the person looking skeleton-like.

 

[SikKunt]

Strong first thread.

 

[FatJattMofo]

autism is the funniest thing in the world

 

[sexsexsexsex]

autism is the funniest thing in the world

My thread is funny because I am trying to explain how a modern diet is harmful and giving you information you can use to your advantage to improve many areas of your life instead of telling you the names of 100 different drugs worth thousands of dollars you can buy and take to achieve the same thing?

 

[FatJattMofo]

My thread is funny because I am trying to explain how a modern diet is harmful and giving you information you can use to your advantage to improve many areas of your life instead of telling you the names of 100 different drugs worth thousands of dollars you can buy and take to achieve the same thing?

I thought this was pro frutarian for a second.

 

[kalefartbomb]

I recall Bart Kay talking extensively on this. It's common sense that mixed carb/fat diets are unhealthy, we know it makes us fat, the standard western diet emphasises a "balance" of carbs and fats which is idiotic and no wonder disease rates only go up the more the government double down on their stupid guidelines.

People should consume either carbs or fats for fuel, and if they have any common sense they would consume fats since 1) many nutrients are only found in animal fats, carbs have no nutritional value 2) we evolved digesting fat for fuel, high carb diets are a very recent phenomenon, and 3) a high carb diet will cause chronic inflammation and all the modern diseases associated with it.

 

[Deleted member 656]

People should consume either carbs or fats for fuel, and if they have any common sense they would consume fats since 1) many nutrients are only found in animal fats, carbs have no nutritional value 2) we evolved digesting fat for fuel, high carb diets are a very recent phenomenon, and 3) a high carb diet will cause chronic inflammation and all the modern diseases associated with it.

And now we're back to the great debate on whether the ketogenic diet or the Okinawan diet is preferable.

 

[sexsexsexsex]

a high carb diet will cause chronic inflammation

A low fat one would not cause chronic inflammation (although some plant foods can be inflammatory themselves), although it is anything but sustainable in the long term, as I said in the OP

And now we're back to the great debate on whether the ketogenic diet or the Okinawan diet is preferable.

I don't see why an Okinawan diet would be seen as preferable. Have you read the OP? What are your thoughts?

 

[betamanlet]

The consumption of both Fat and Carbohydrates leads to:

Treating carbs as a single nutritionally cohesive group is a fatal mistake that will undermine the profoundness of your conclusions. The problems you list are mostly problems of combining fat and starches, rather than fat and sugars.

 

[Deleted member 656]

I don't see why an Okinawan diet would be seen as preferable. Have you read the OP? What are your thoughts?

Well the Okinawan diet is high carb, moderate protein and low fat. Arguments in favour of the Okinawan diet are built upon the fact that they've the longest lifespans in the world. That obviously factors in more than just diet, though diet is still very important.

Ketogenic diet doesn't have the historical evidence to back it up, though in theory you can see why it'd be better.

The issue here is going to be finding a way to get plenty of healthy fats whilst also getting all your other necessary micronutrients and plant-hormetic compounds from vegetables and berries in the least damaging way possible.

 

[sexsexsexsex]

Treating carbs as a single nutritionally cohesive group is a fatal mistake that will undermine the profoundness of your conclusions. The problems you list are mostly problems of combining fat and starches, rather than fat and sugars.

Starch gets broken down into Glucose, Sugar (Sucrose) gets broken down into Glucose and Fructose

 

[SikKunt]

Okinawan diet is preferable.

Okinawan diet consists of lots of meat, mostly pork and fish. Not "sweet potatoes" like the Jews have spread that horseshit lie.

 

[Deleted member 656]

Okinawan diet consists of lots of meat, mostly pork and fish. Not "sweet potatoes" like the Jews have spread that horseshit lie.

General consensus between the people that actually look into it agrees. They eat pork rarely not but negligably, and also eat more fish than people typically say.

Hence why I said

Okinawan diet is high carb, moderate protein and low fat.

Rather than low protein.

What's the take-away from that? Avoid red meat?

 

[betamanlet]

Starch gets broken down into Glucose, Sugar (Sucrose) gets broken down into Glucose and Fructose

Correct. Starch is the only carbohydrate that doesn't contain fructose. Fructose limits insulin secretion while intensifying metabolism, which leads to higher calorie burn rate. In studies for example, rats fed with starch weighed about twice as much as rats fed with sugar after a year.

As you have found out, the glucose from starch will drive up insulin on it's own, preventing fat from being broken down as energy. After the body has chosen to burn glucose over fat, it will have to burn through the glucose you are ingesting until either 1)all glucose is burned off 2) insulin lowers enough to allow fat to be burned. With other carbohydrate sources, the problem hardly exists at all.

 

[Chadelite]

NOTE: I don't have the time or patience to write everything about this now. I have skipped on writing a lot of things. If you have questions of any nature, leave them in the replies.

%----------------------------------%

The Randle Cycle, also called The Glucose-Fatty Acid Cycle describes the interaction between the 2 main dietary energy sources humans eat: Fat and Carbohydrates, more exactly the fact that they cannot both be used as an energy source.

When a person consumes both Fat and Carbohydrates in a single meal, more than half of both will be stored as fat (with a high percentage of Glucose being converted into Fat trough De Novo Lipogenesis and preferentially and stored in the Liver, causing NAFLD). That is because:
1) Fat inhibits the ability for Glucose to be used as an energy source: This is bypassed by exercise, thanks to the presence of Catecholamines (Adrenaline, Cortisol, ...) in the blood. If a person starts fasting, none of the stored Glycogen will be used as energy until all of the stored fat is completely used up.
2) Fat impairs the absorbtion of Glucose in the muscle by more than half

The consumption of both Fat and Carbohydrates leads to:
1) Impaired energy production and increased fat depositing
2) Widespread cell death due to Mitochondrial Damage
3) Increased inflammation troughout the body:
3.1) Hypothalamic Inflammation: Lowers the release of Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (Growth Hormone), Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone (TSH -> T3 + T4 and Prolactin), Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (FSH/LH -> Androgens/Estrogens), Prolactin Inhibiting Hormone (Dopamine), Corticotropin Releasing Hormone (ACTH), Vasopressin, ... which will also lead to the subsequent decrease of the number of receptors for most of these hormones (The ones released by the Pituitary) to decrease in the body.
It will also subsequently lead to decreased production of Collagen, Elastin (GH, Estrogen) and maintenance of blood water and mineral content (Vasopressin), which combined to the increased inflammation will decrease skin quality.
The lack of Androgens and Estrogen
3.2) Reduced insulin sensitivity
3.3) Reduced Albumin production, thus increased bioavailable Androgens and Estrogens, and other Sterols and Fatty Acids; increased Thyroid levels, etc.
3.4) Can possibly affect mood. It has been shown that anti-inflamatory drugs can improve symptoms of Depression which implies a link between the two
...

So which should you consume?:
A diet with very low to no fat will allow a person to lose weight while eating a relatively high amount of food and will greatly lower inflammation in the body, explaining the N=1 reports from people reporting quick weight loss, lowered depression and anxiety as well as the numerous scientific papers showing a short-term low-fat vegan diet reversing Insulin Resistance, Heart Disease, etc.

There are a few problems with this, however:
- You will still only use your body fat as an energy source for most of the body, but it will be impaired by Insulin in the short-term, although your sensitivity to it will be increased thanks to lowered inflammation and it may not be fully noticeable
- You will be deficient in many fat-soluble vitamins which are found in animal fats (I do not support the consumption of plant oils to anybody as they are inflammatory, contain an increased level of Omega 6s which should be kept as low as possible and cannot be offset by increased Omega 3s, as some would say, and they lack many nutrients that only animal fats have, or do contain them but in different forms with little to no use to the body): Vitamin A as Retinyl Esters, Vitamin D3, Vitamin K2, Vitamin E, Omega 3 as DHA/EPA, 6 as ARA, 7, 9 Animal FAs, Saturated and Unsaturated Animal FAs, Cholesterol

A diet with very low to no carbohydrates offers the same benefits as a low-fat diet, with the increased benefits of
- Acquiring all needed macro and micro nutrients required
- Not interrupting production of of hormones (which is influenced both ways by Insulin and other hormones strongly triggered by Carbohydrate consumption)
- Having stable energy troughout the day
- Having increased fat-burning and body temperature due to the effects of Fat in the Mitochondria (Causing a loss of energy causing heat and an increased caloric need).
- Avoiding many Xenoestrogens from plants and other food wrapping that will cause an imbalance of Estrogens/Androgens, possibly even lowering testosterone production in some cases due to Estrogen's effects interaction with the Hypothalamus and its control of the release of more Gonadotropins. Also reduced feminization of men in growing children.
...

You will also be able to create all Glucose you need trough Gluconeogenesis from Fat (Protein will only be used once there is no body or dietary Fat to be converted) and no dietary Carbohydrates are required, although it takes 1-2 weeks for your cells to adapt to the new energy source.

Does this apply to everyone?:
Clearly it does not. We have barely started to understand more about nutrition and how it affects the body mechanistically. There is no reason to doubt there are people out there with increased tolerances to this sort of feeding patterns, possibly an adaptation to the person's ancestors (parents, grandparents, ...) having similar mixed diets. There might also be other certain genes involved in this, but we also know very little about genetics at this point.

If you find that a mixed diet does not work for you and you want to see if there is anything to the kind of diet I am promoting here, you can try it out. Otherwise, you still have information in this thread trough which you can continue your own research if you wish to.

Real Life Examples:
View attachment 184371
Fruitarians
Fruitarians only eat Sugar. According to the findings surrounding The Randal Cycle, Glucose cannot be used by most of the body's cells and is only used as a fuel source during exercise, trough Cathecholamines, so the body will go a fasting-like state where the body fat of the person is used as energy, leaving the person looking skeleton-like.

I thought this was @Looksmaxer49

 

[SikKunt]

General consensus between the people that actually look into it agrees. They eat pork rarely not but negligably,

False.
They started eating their slave diet high in plant foods because of the war which caused all the livestock to get killed so they had to find another way to get "food".
Before that their diet was HIGH in pork and such.

Willcox, the fraudulent fabricator of Okinawa sweet potato longevity diet

Willcox, the fraudulent fabricator of Okinawa sweet potato longevity diet makes false claim that Okinawan's longevity is the result of eatin...

truther10.blogspot.com

 

[Deleted member 656]

False.
They started eating their slave diet high in plant foods because of the war which caused all the livestock to get killed so they had to find another way to get "food".
Before that their diet was HIGH in pork and such.

Willcox, the fraudulent fabricator of Okinawa sweet potato longevity diet

Willcox, the fraudulent fabricator of Okinawa sweet potato longevity diet makes false claim that Okinawan's longevity is the result of eatin...

truther10.blogspot.com

That actually makes a lot of sense and seems like a massive and obvious oversight

 

[SikKunt]

seems like a massive and obvious oversight

 

[sexsexsexsex]

Well the Okinawan diet is high carb, moderate protein and low fat. Arguments in favour of the Okinawan diet are built upon the fact that they've the longest lifespans in the world. That obviously factors in more than just diet, though diet is still very important.

Ketogenic diet doesn't have the historical evidence to back it up, though in theory you can see why it'd be better.

The issue here is going to be finding a way to get plenty of healthy fats whilst also getting all your other necessary micronutrients and plant-hormetic compounds from vegetables and berries in the least damaging way possible.

I don't know anything about Okinawans myself, but it's possible, for all we know right now, that they have built in adaptations from the generations upon generations eating that kind of diet, as mentioned in the OP. The mechanisms trough which Insulin, as an anabolic hormone, speeds up aging are well known. Exercise is a good way to somewhat mitigate those effects, as it has the opposite effect, that might be part of it too.

Also, what do you consider healthy fats? Are you against Saturated Fat? That would mean you also don't believe people used to eat meat exclusively, otherwise we would all have gone extinct due to heart attacks, but maybe you believe we were Berry Pickers like Mike Klaper.

I believe the fact that our body uses Fat for energy preferencially while preserving Glucose, the fact that it can produce Glucose if it is needed, but not Fat, shows which one the body needs. We also couldn't have possibly fed on plants the entire year, at least as far as I know.

I personally am against plant oils, as they are inflammatory due to their high Omega 6 content and the lack of Omega 3 (It is said that you should intake as little Omega 6 as possible and that you cannot just compensate with more Omega 3, but I cannot say as I didn't look into it), they also do not contain all required nutrients for humans, or do but in the wrong forms (Beta-Carotene instead of Retinyl Esters; Vitamin D2 instead of D3; Vitamin K1 instead of K2)

As far as hormetic stressors go, why would you need one on an diet where your overal inflammation and stress will be very low? Cold/Hot showers as well as exercise are enough of a stress for the normal person, as well as one that our ancestors would have had to go trough.

As you have found out, the glucose from starch will drive up insulin on it's own, preventing fat from being broken down as energy. After the body has chosen to burn glucose over fat, it will have to burn through the glucose you are ingesting until either 1)all glucose is burned off 2) insulin lowers enough to allow fat to be burned. With other carbohydrate sources, the problem hardly exists at all.

That's not at all what I have found out. What I have found out is that the temporarily increased blood sugar will give you a bit of energy after which the body will switch back to fat burning, unless you are insulin resistant.

You are trying to say we should consume Fructose instead? Firstly, part of Fructose can also be converted into Glucose. Secondly, I don't know any food source that is pure Fructose. Thirdly, Fructose comes with its own set of problems regarding inflammation in the body.
At this point you might as well just say we should eat artificial sweeteners such as Erythritol for the sake of consuming something sweet, which is senseless.

 

[Deleted member 656]

As far as hormetic stressors go, why would you need one on an diet where your overal inflammation and stress will be very low? Cold/Hot showers as well as exercise are enough of a stress for the normal person, as well as one that our ancestors would have had to go trough.

Saunas are significantly better than hot showers. Assuming you're sticking to hormesis rather than actually causing legitimate damage, there's absolutely no reason not to want stress in as many different ways as possible. Resistance training, HIIT, endurance training, red-light therapy, plant-hormetic compounds, fasting and the aforementioned saunas and cold showers.

Also, what do you consider healthy fats?

Fish, eggs, dark chocolate, nuts, avocados

 

[sexsexsexsex]

Fish, eggs, dark chocolate, nuts, avocados

The whole term of "healthy fats" was coined because animal saturated fats were considered unhealthy, but you still mentioned them here, just that it was in the form of plant foods and eggs, just not "Beef", so I am confused.

 

[kalefartbomb]

And now we're back to the great debate on whether the ketogenic diet or the Okinawan diet is preferable.

Okinawan diet is pork based. That is where they got their nutrition. Sadly all their pigs were killed off after WW2 destroying their diet for many years. It's the same across east asia, they eat a lot of meat unless they are poor and can't afford it. Hong Kong eats the most red meat in the world and lives the longest. They also tend to ferment their vegetables in east asia, which westerners do not to their detriment. Raw vegetables are toxic.

There isn't really a debate. We know diets should be animal-based from basic nutrition facts. The debate is whether we should eat some fermented vegetables or eliminate them completely. I suppose it depends on your ancestry. White europeans descended from hominids that were carnivorous, as were the neanderthals (common sense since no plant foods grow in a frozen europe for most of the year) It is likely that the more animal foods are in the European diet the better which is why the Italians and French (who eat a huge amount of animal foods contrary to vegan propaganda) do so much better than Brits and Americans who are addicted to processed plant foods like bread, crisps, baked goods and who eat less than 10% of calories from meat.

 

[betamanlet]

I believe the fact that our body uses Fat for energy preferencially while preserving Glucose, the fact that it can produce Glucose if it is needed, but not Fat, shows which one the body needs. We also couldn't have possibly fed on plants the entire year, at least as far as I know.

You would be right, were the situation not the exact opposite of what you describe: glucose metabolism is a primary system, whereas fat metabolism is a secondary system (ever wondered why you would need to adapt to a primary system?). Our bodies can produce fat through lipogenesis. The rest sounds reasonable enough not to nitpick against.

 

[sexsexsexsex]

You would be right, were the situation not the exact opposite of what you describe: glucose metabolism is a primary system, whereas fat metabolism is a secondary system (ever wondered why you would need to adapt to the former?). Our bodies can produce fat through lipogenesis. The rest sounds reasonable enough not to nitpick against.

You need to adapt to the former because you have been eating Carbohydrates for your whole life most likely. If you would have eaten meat only since birth, you would probably have to adapt to the Carbohydrates as well. Even then, the biggest part of the adaptation is losing the cravings for Carbohydrates since your body should already be able to burn fat and use it as a fuel source unless you have done too much damage to your body and are insulin resistant, at which point it would still not take more than a week to adapt.

If you were to not eat any fats at all, you would not convert and Glucose into fat (Refer to my mention of Low-fat Vegan/Fruitarian skeletons in OP).

When you are fasting your body uses your fat stores only, not the glycogen stores. Just because you heard vegans saying Carbohydrates are the prefered energy source, it does not make it true.

 

[betamanlet]

If you were to not eat any fats at all, you would not convert and Glucose into fat (Refer to my mention of Low-fat Vegan/Fruitarian skeletons in OP).

Ignoring the unrealistic premise of not eating any fats at all, there is nothing to lipogenesis as a process that requires fatty acids. Fatty acids are the output of lipogenesis, not the input. You are essentially saying that you need fat to synthesize fat, which is a silly assertion to make.

Fruitarians look like shit because they are malnourished. There is no sufficient fat synthesis because they are hardly even getting in the calories required to maintain homeostasis.

Just because you heard vegans saying Carbohydrates are the prefered energy source, it does not make it true.

Ha! Not everyone who doesn't agree with your pop-scientific understanding of nutrition is a vegan. I'm all about defending the qualities that actually do define the nature of man as an opportunistic omnivore capable of thriving on just about anything. You are a dietary extremist, and for that I loathe you.

The evolutionary history of man, and of primates precluding man, make it apparent that we as organisms have been eating carbohydrates far longer than we have been eating fatty meat.

 

[sexsexsexsex]

Ignoring the unrealistic premise of not eating any fats at all, there is nothing to lipogenesis as a process that requires fatty acids. Fatty acids are the output of lipogenesis, not the input. You are essentially saying that you need fat to synthesize fat, which is a silly assertion to make.

Fruitarians look like shit because they are malnourished. There is no sufficient fat synthesis because they are hardly even getting in the calories they require to just maintain homeostasis.



Ha! Not everyone who doesn't agree with your pop-scientific understanding of nutrition is a vegan. I'm all about defending the qualities that actually do define the nature of man as an opportunistic omnivore capable of thriving on just about anything. You are a dietary extremist, and for that I loathe you.

Dietary Extremist is another senseless term. It implies that you need to eat a mixed diet to be healthy, which is anything but true. You are also currently arguing the safety of a diet low in fat and high in carbohydrates, but you don't consider that extreme?

There is not enough information at this point to say what would happen for sure, but hypothetically, on a very low Fat and high Carbohydrate diet, after burning trough all of your stored fat, your body will adapt to using Glucose as an energy source and start actually breaking down the stored Glycogen for use. If you were to eat enough that you couldn't burn off or store it, let's say it would be converted into fat. After you store it, the moment your blood sugar goes down, your body will start burning the Fat and thus inhibiting the use of Glucose for energy. After that the cycle would continue.

Not even going to mention all the nutritional deficiencies that will happen on that kind of diet.

Refer to this for more information. I might be wrong on some things.

 

[Deleted member 656]

Raw vegetables are toxic.

That's the whole reason you're supposed to eat them.

 

[sexsexsexsex]

That's the whole reason you're supposed to eat them.

Elaborate

 

[Deleted member 656]

Elaborate

They're hormetic. Because they're slightly toxic they lightly stress the cells and trigger cellular stress response pathways that have beneficial effects. Activation of phase II detoxification enzymes, and of anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant genes. Decactivation of phase 1 biotransformation enzymes and pro-inflammatory genes.

 

[sexsexsexsex]

They're hormetic. Because they're slightly toxic they lightly stress the cells and trigger cellular stress response pathways that have beneficial effects. Activation of phase II detoxification enzymes, and of anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant genes. Decactivation of phase 1 biotransformation enzymes and pro-inflammatory genes.

I don't have much knowledge in this topic, but I do know:
1) Raw plants will cause inflammation in your intestines, which can lead to immune disorders such as Crohn's
2) Raw plants contain anti-nutrients which affect you right then and there, although there seems to be a gut bacteria that can possibly help consume the dietary Oxalates. Also the Vitamin C that is not used will be converted into Oxalic Acid.
3) You would not need any plant hormetic stressors if you were to eat an appropriate human diet of animal fat and protein
4) You mentioned yourself before: "there's absolutely no reason not to want stress in as many different ways as possible", so would a bit of high heat or low temperature or exercise not be enough to achieve the same effects with less potential side effects?

 

[theanonymousone]

At what level of carbs does fat become "bad" though? For example, on keto fat ends up being good for you, but at what level of carb consumption does it become bad? High fat combined with high carb is really bad. Is aiming for around 100g of carbs a day with the rest mostly fat and adequate protein ok?

 

[betamanlet]

Dietary Extremist is another senseless term. It implies that you need to eat a mixed diet to be healthy, which is anything but true.

The irony is that a mere sentence later you fully validate the term I used. You are, by your own admission, a dietary extremist. Only an extremist indulges in either-or thinking.

You are also currently arguing the safety of a diet low in fat and high in carbohydrates, but you don't consider that extreme?

Consider that I am not making absolute statements regarding the safety of any way of eating. Rather, I am rejecting your assertion that a high fat diet is relatively safer to a high carbohydrate diet. As an assertion it is too universal to convey any substantial value due to how multidimensional and interrelated to other aspects of life all dietary science is.

There is not enough information at this point to say what would happen for sure, but hypothetically, on a very low Fat and high Carbohydrate diet

Not enough information? People have been eating VLF diets for eons. Even today in rural Mexican and Chinese areas there are villages full of centenarians that eat diets consisting of less than 10% fat. There is very little hypotheticality left in nutrition. It may not seem like so, because modern nutritional science has been consumed by poor research that contradicts completely valid knowledge that had already been established for a long time. This is called the replicability crisis. At this point, there is no such thing as "not enough information", instead, there is TOO much information. Way too fucking much. And most of it is worthless.

If you were to eat enough that you couldn't burn off or store it, let's say it would be converted into fat. After you store it, the moment your blood sugar goes down, your body will start burning the Fat and thus inhibiting the use of Glucose for energy. After that the cycle would continue.

1) Activating de novo lipogenesis on a very low fat diet does not realistically happen, since before forcing glucose to be converted into fat, you'd have to not only fill your caloric needs, but also completely fill up your glycogen stores (which can take in 1-2 days worth of glucose).

2) Randle cycle involves muscle and fat tissue only. The body is more than that. As such, fat burning vs glucose burning is not a binary switch: you are always burning both.

 

[Deleted member 2756]

incel trait: giving a fuck about certain articulate cope diets, just prioritize fatty cuts of grass-fed meat, eggs, and root vegetables.

If I wanted an increase in insulin sensitivity I'd take metformin

 

[sexsexsexsex]

@betamanlet I did not read a single word from your post. You don't understand what you are talking about, you are writing me emotionally fueled rants, and we will never agree, we will only just create a bunch of shitposts on my thread.

At what level of carbs does fat become "bad" though? For example, on keto fat ends up being good for you, but at what level of carb consumption does it become bad? High fat combined with high carb is really bad. Is aiming for around 100g of carbs a day with the rest mostly fat and adequate protein ok?

Anything that makes you feel and look good is OK. The combination of Fat and Carbohydrates has been proven mechanistically to be at least counter-productive, so if you feel you could use some improvement you could always just try eliminating one (although I would recommend eliminating the Carbohydrates) for a month and see if it makes you feel and look better.

incel trait: giving a fuck about certain articulate cope diets, just prioritize fatty cuts of grass-fed meat, eggs, and root vegetables.

If I wanted an increase in insulin sensitivity I'd take metformin

So you disagree with the fact that eating both Fat and Carbohydrates in the diet is counter-productive and harmful? Is the only sentence that you read from the OP "Insulin Sensitivity"? Because if it is, then you clearly missed the point of this whole post.

 

[Deleted member 2756]

@betamanlet
So you disagree with the fact that eating both Fat and Carbohydrates in the diet is counter-productive and harmful? Is the only sentence that you read from the OP "Insulin Sensitivity"? Because if it is, then you clearly missed the point of this whole post.

didn't really read through ngl, I don't care about diet, I used to be really into it, but there's only so far you can go with reaping the benefits

 

[ZyzzReincarnate]

 

[sexsexsexsex]

didn't really read through ngl, I don't care about diet, I used to be really into it, but there's only so far you can go with reaping the benefits

As I said above, if you feel you are happy with your current diet and you either don't want or don't need any more improvement, then it does not matter. Otherwise, a month-long trial run with a diet eliminating either Fats of Carbohydrates wouldn't hurt and might show you your full potential physically and mentally, at least that's what I believe. I also believe there is legitimate proof to show the majority of people are negatively affected by a mixed diet. How can you know you actually feel good and haven't just gotten used to feeling like shit if you haven't experienced both sides?

 

[SikKunt]

mad emoji with fists up and frowning

 

[Deleted member 2756]

As I said above, if you feel you are happy with your current diet and you either don't want or don't need any more improvement, then it does not matter. Otherwise, a month-long trial run with a diet eliminating either Fats of Carbohydrates wouldn't hurt and might show you your full potential physically and mentally, at least that's what I believe. I also believe there is legitimate proof to show the majority of people are negatively affected by a mixed diet. How can you know you actually feel good and haven't just gotten used to feeling like shit if you haven't experienced both sides?

what do you prefer? carbs +proteins or fats+protiens?

 

[sexsexsexsex]

what do you prefer? carbs +proteins or fats+protiens?

(Animal) Fats + (Animal) Proteins obviously

 

[Deleted member 2756]

(Animal) Fats + (Animal) Proteins obviously

oh so your one of those muh animal fat's dudes

join the club

 

[sexsexsexsex]

oh so your one of those muh animal fat's dudes

join the club

Calling me a "muh animal fats" dude does not and never will disprove anything I said troughout this entire thread

 

[Deleted member 2756]

Calling me a "muh animal fats" dude does not and never will disprove anything I said troughout this entire thread

never said it doesn't bro

does eating a tub of lard MAKE me chad overnight?

specific dieting is a meme beyond puberty.

 

[SikKunt]

does eating a tub of lard MAKE me chad overnight?

Nothing can make you chad lol. Better just die if your mentality is like that.

 

[sexsexsexsex]

never said it doesn't bro

does eating a tub of lard MAKE me chad overnight?

specific dieting is a meme beyond puberty.

For someone who is not very ugly, it can help them improve their skin greatly, improve their body composition, motivation and others effortlessly I'd say.
For someone who is ugly, it can help them cope.

But as I said, it's your choice if you want to follow this or not, I just put the information out there.

 

[Deleted member 2756]

Nothing can make you chad lol. Better just die if your mentality is like that.

loads can, just eating beef tallow won't. That's why I don't understand why specific intense diet's are discussed so often here.

btw are you still considering taking melanotan?

For someone who is not very ugly, it can help them improve their skin greatly, improve their body composition, motivation and others effortlessly I'd say.
For someone who is ugly, it can help them cope.

But as I said, it's your choice if you want to follow this or not, I just put the information out there.

yeah all good, sorry for being cunty bruh.

 

[SikKunt]

btw are you still considering taking melanotan?

Obviously. but mom doesnt wanna buy and I can't buy myself.
I'll just do it myself later, at least she'll buy me LGD.

 

[Deleted member 2756]

Obviously. but mom doesnt wanna buy and I can't buy myself.
I'll just do it myself later, at least she'll buy me LGD.

get a job dude, you can buy a shit tonne of stuff whilst living with parents

I trolled my mum into buying peptides once jfl.

 

[balding17yomanletcel]

Dnrd

 

[SikKunt]

get a job dude, you can buy a shit tonne of stuff whilst living with parents

I trolled my mum into buying peptides once jfl.

Bro I can't buy while living with parents, they'll see.
My mom knows about these types of drugs and their uses, their side effects etc...
I can only do it if I live alone.