Effects of Ashwagandha on thyroid hormones and its implications for heightmaxing.

[Deleted member 49130]

Overview of thyroid gland:​

• The thyroid gland produces two hormones, T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine)​
• TSH (Thryoid Stimulating Hormone) is released by the pituitary gland to tell the thyroid to make more T3 and T4​
• Hypothyroidism is when your thyroid gland is underactive, in blood tests this can show as a high TSH level and low T3/T4 level​
• Hyperthyroidism is the opposite.​

Effects of Ashwhaganda​

• Ashwhaganda has many effects that may be usefull in heightmaxxing however, I am only going to discuss effects that have an effect on the thyroid hormones​
• It is well known Ashwhaganda decreases stress and decreases cortisol levels. It also acts as something called a "GABA mimetic". This is means it has a calming effect on your brain. GABA is the prominent inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, it promotes relaxation, calmness and sleep​
• In a clinical study following 50 people, ashwhaganda was shown to increase levels of T3 and T4 in the blood while decreasing TSH. This trial was a double blind RCT so it's results are likely legit. The dose used was the common 600mg dose too. It is likely it achieves this effect by lowering corisol.​

Relationship between thyroid hormones and IGF-1​

• IGF-1 is vital if you want to heightmax. You can increase your HGH all you want by gymmaxxing or injecting it or taking peptides etc, but if IGF-1 is not being synthesised in the liver or if your bones are not responding to it - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN​

Let me go into more detail for this. Here is an extract from a research paper: " Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction" full text source is in the sources at the end of this post[3].

TH potentiate GH stimulation of the synthesis and action of insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF1) and stimulation of the production of different growth factors (epidermal growth factor, nerve growth factor, and erythropoietin). Cartilage response to IGF1 and osteoblastic/osteoclastic bone remodeling are also regulated by thyroid hormones.

This is claiming that without thyroid hormones, IGF1 synthesis will be limited, so you will have lower IGF1 levels to start of with even if you are dosing HGH. And most importantly: ". Cartilage response to IGF1 and osteoblastic/osteoclastic bone remodeling are also regulated by thyroid hormones." This means if you have hypothyroidism, or even subclinical hypothyroidism your bones will simply not respond to the IGF and you will not grow even if your growth plates are still open.

> Even in subclinical hypothyroidism, a condition of mild thyroid failure, growth velocity in children is suboptimal.

Subclinical hypothyroidism is defined by either borderline high TSH with normal T3/T4 levels or TSH. Unfortunatly many doctors will not treat subclinical hypothyroidism even if you are showing symptomps despite latest evidence saying to treat it. [4]. Alot of people have subclinical hypothryoidism without knowing it.

Relationship between thyroid hormones and growth plate closure​

This is a very important section. Hopefully this emphasises the importance of taking an aromatase inhibitor in your stack. That same research paper has the following claim:

> The process of longitudinal bone growth is governed by a complex network of endocrine signals, including growth hormone, IGF1, glucocorticoid, thyroid hormone, oestrogen, androgen, vitamin D and leptin ([Nilsson et al., 2005](https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/42441#B23)). The growth plate consists of three principal layers: the resting zone, proliferative zone and hypertrophic zone. In hypothyroid animals, the proliferative and hypertrophic zones are decreased in height, and chondrocyte proliferation, chondrocyte hypertrophy and vascular/bone cell invasion are affected. In addition, the normal columnar organisation of the growth plate is disrupted (Stivens et al., 2000). Some of the sceletal effects appear to be due to direct action on the growth plate. Growth plate chondrocytes express thyroid hormone receptor (TR) isoforms TR-α, α-1,and β. Most cases of thyroid hormone resistance in humans are caused by dominant-negative mutations of the TR-β gene, which may also affect TR-α function and show variable sceletal effects ([Takeda et al., 1992](https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/42441#B37), [Nilsson et al., 2005](https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/42441#B23)).

TH are critical for normal bone growth and development. In children, hypothyroidism can cause short stature and delayed closure of the epiphyses. Biochemical studies have shown that TH can affect the expression of various bone markers in the serum, reflecting changes in both bone formation and resorption. TH increase alkaline phosphatase and osteocalcin in osteoblasts. Additionally, osteoclast markers such as urinary hydroxiproline, urinary pyridinium, and deoxypyridinium cross-links are increased in hyperthyroid patients. These observations suggest that both osteoblast and osteoclast activities are stimulated by TH ([Yen, 2001](https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/42441#B44)).​

This is very information dense so let me summarise:

• Hypothyroidism / Thyroid resistance slows growth plate senesence which leaves the growth plates open for longer​

​

So then why do we not want that? Growth plates being open for longer is good right?
Not in this case. Despite our growth plates being open for longer, low T3/T4 levels (or resistance to those hormones) will stop the effect of IGF-1 from taking place.
Also, once your thyroid hormones are working again, you will experience something called "catch up growth", where you will be growing at a much faster rate than normal - HOWEVER your growth plates will shut faster as well. So overall, you will grow less than someone without low levels of T3/T4.

Taking an aromatase inhibitor has been shown to keep the effects of rapid catch up growth while delaying growth plate closure. A dose of 1mg a day of anastrazole is safe to take with normal estrogen levels without experiencing the side effects (as this was used in the case report I am about to link, however it might be different for you)[5] https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025

What should you do?​

• Before starting your heightmaxxing stack ensure you get your thyroid hormones tested. Ensure T3 and T4 is tested as well as TSH, some doctors, especially in the UK will only test for TSH at first as it saves them money​
• If your T3 and T4 is in the lower half of normal and TSH is in the higher half of normal, take ashwhaganda with your heightmaxxing stack, consider taking levothryoxine but that is up to you to look into and decide. As taking too much thyroid hormones can cause a loss in bone density, which is the opposite of what you want for heightmaxxing, ashwhaganda exists as a cheaper, safer and more available alternative.​
• If you have hypothyroidism get it treated by a doctor properly while taking HGH + AI at the same time​
• If all your values are normal, still take ashwaghanda, you could also take levothryoxine but I would be very catious about this as you dont want to fuck up your thyroid permanetly.​
• Make sure you take an aromatase inhibitor.​

Sources:

[1] Pedrón VT, Varani AP, Bettler B, Balerio GN. GABAB receptors modulate morphine antinociception: Pharmacological and genetic approaches. Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2019 May;180:11-21.
[2] Sharma AK, Basu I, Singh S. Efficacy and Safety of Ashwagandha Root Extract in Subclinical Hypothyroid Patients: A Double-Blind, Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial. J Altern Complement Med. 2018 Mar;24(3):243-248. doi: 10.1089/acm.2017.0183. Epub 2017 Aug 22. PMID: 28829155.
[3] Saranac L, Stamenkovic H, Stankovic T, et al. (2013) Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction. Current Topics in Hypothyroidism with Focus on Development. InTech. Available at: http://dx.doi.org/10.5772/55017.*
[4] Calissendorff J, Falhammar H. To Treat or Not to Treat Subclinical Hypothyroidism, What Is the Evidence? Medicina (Kaunas). 2020 Jan 19;56(1):40. doi: 10.3390/medicina56010040. PMID: 31963883; PMCID: PMC7022757.
[5] Juanita K Hodax, Lisa Swartz Topor, Shara R Bialo, Jose Bernardo Quintos, Anastrozole Improves Final Adult Height in Severe Hypothyroidism With Rapid Pubertal Progression, _Journal of the Endocrine Society_, Volume 5, Issue 5, May 2021, bvab025, [https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025](https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025)

 

[edgemaxx]

bro im already schizo i dont want pyscal problems too fuck this shit

 

[szolliontaraelis]

Water info for the sex slaves of Ray Peat

 

[BrahminBoss]

Yes, ashwagandha literally means "Virility of a horse" . It was probably used in Vedic Aryan India as a sort of adjunct to the sacred soma before they went off to war or before they impregnate so they could get a son. I dont see the point of it nowadays tho as thyroid hormone does a 1000x better job. One bad effect of ashwaganda though is that it increases extracellular serotonin

 

[szolliontaraelis]

Yes, ashwagandha literally means "Virility of a horse" . It was probably used in Vedic Aryan India as a sort of adjunct to the sacred soma before they went off to war or before they impregnate so they could get a son. I dont see the point of it nowadays tho as thyroid hormone does a 1000x better job. One bad effect of ashwaganda though is that it increases extracellular serotonin

Doesn't taking exogenous thyroid wreck your own natty production?

 

[BrahminBoss]

Doesn't taking exogenous thyroid wreck your own natty production?

people have used it for 20 years and stopped. It comes back in two or three days, and much better than before as thyroid would have detoxified TLR 4 endotoxin, PUFA detox due to its UCP 1 activation, brown fat increase, and estrogen inactivation.

 

[Deleted member 49130]

thyroid would have detoxified TLR 4 endotoxin

What is your source for this? What I can find on TLR 4 endotoxin states that the immune system manages this. (https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2018.02705/full and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3919163/).

 

[BrahminBoss]

What is your source for this? What I can find on TLR 4 endotoxin states that the immune system manages this. (https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2018.02705/full and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3919163/).

Pregnenolone is a potent tlr4 antagonist and thyroid greatly increases the production of sex steroids like pregnenelone and allopregnanonole .

"...Recent studies showed that the neurosteroid compounds pregnenolone and allopregnanolone have therapeutic effects in depression, schizophrenia and PTSD. But until now, scientists didn't understand how. The UNC-Maryland study suggests that inhibition of inflammatory signaling may contribute to these effects, and inhibition of TLR4 signaling may be a new target for these conditions."

 

[betrayed by 5‘8]

Didn’t read but it doesn’t work after growth plate close correct ?

 

[Deleted member 49130]

Didn’t read but it doesn’t work after growth plate close correct ?

nope

 

[macedonpsycho]

good thread op, whats a natural heightmaxxing supplement stack u recommend along with ashwaghanda? (with dosages)

 

[Deleted member 49130]

good thread op, whats a natural heightmaxxing supplement stack u recommend along with ashwaghanda? (with dosages)

Unfortunately heightmaxxing without HGH / peptides at least is cope but how old are you I can still give you something you could try

 

[its_over]

Overview of thyroid gland:​

• The thyroid gland produces two hormones, T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine)​
• TSH (Thryoid Stimulating Hormone) is released by the pituitary gland to tell the thyroid to make more T3 and T4​
• Hypothyroidism is when your thyroid gland is underactive, in blood tests this can show as a high TSH level and low T3/T4 level​
• Hyperthyroidism is the opposite.​

Effects of Ashwhaganda​

• Ashwhaganda has many effects that may be usefull in heightmaxxing however, I am only going to discuss effects that have an effect on the thyroid hormones​
• It is well known Ashwhaganda decreases stress and decreases cortisol levels. It also acts as something called a "GABA mimetic". This is means it has a calming effect on your brain. GABA is the prominent inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, it promotes relaxation, calmness and sleep​
• In a clinical study following 50 people, ashwhaganda was shown to increase levels of T3 and T4 in the blood while decreasing TSH. This trial was a double blind RCT so it's results are likely legit. The dose used was the common 600mg dose too. It is likely it achieves this effect by lowering corisol.​

Relationship between thyroid hormones and IGF-1​

• IGF-1 is vital if you want to heightmax. You can increase your HGH all you want by gymmaxxing or injecting it or taking peptides etc, but if IGF-1 is not being synthesised in the liver or if your bones are not responding to it - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN​

Let me go into more detail for this. Here is an extract from a research paper: " Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction" full text source is in the sources at the end of this post[3].


This is claiming that without thyroid hormones, IGF1 synthesis will be limited, so you will have lower IGF1 levels to start of with even if you are dosing HGH. And most importantly: ". Cartilage response to IGF1 and osteoblastic/osteoclastic bone remodeling are also regulated by thyroid hormones." This means if you have hypothyroidism, or even subclinical hypothyroidism your bones will simply not respond to the IGF and you will not grow even if your growth plates are still open.

Subclinical hypothyroidism is defined by either borderline high TSH with normal T3/T4 levels or TSH. Unfortunatly many doctors will not treat subclinical hypothyroidism even if you are showing symptomps despite latest evidence saying to treat it. [4]. Alot of people have subclinical hypothryoidism without knowing it.

Relationship between thyroid hormones and growth plate closure​

This is a very important section. Hopefully this emphasises the importance of taking an aromatase inhibitor in your stack. That same research paper has the following claim:


This is very information dense so let me summarise:

• Hypothyroidism / Thyroid resistance slows growth plate senesence which leaves the growth plates open for longer​

​

So then why do we not want that? Growth plates being open for longer is good right?
Not in this case. Despite our growth plates being open for longer, low T3/T4 levels (or resistance to those hormones) will stop the effect of IGF-1 from taking place.
Also, once your thyroid hormones are working again, you will experience something called "catch up growth", where you will be growing at a much faster rate than normal - HOWEVER your growth plates will shut faster as well. So overall, you will grow less than someone without low levels of T3/T4.

Taking an aromatase inhibitor has been shown to keep the effects of rapid catch up growth while delaying growth plate closure. A dose of 1mg a day of anastrazole is safe to take with normal estrogen levels without experiencing the side effects (as this was used in the case report I am about to link, however it might be different for you)[5] https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025

What should you do?​

• Before starting your heightmaxxing stack ensure you get your thyroid hormones tested. Ensure T3 and T4 is tested as well as TSH, some doctors, especially in the UK will only test for TSH at first as it saves them money​
• If your T3 and T4 is in the lower half of normal and TSH is in the higher half of normal, take ashwhaganda with your heightmaxxing stack, consider taking levothryoxine but that is up to you to look into and decide. As taking too much thyroid hormones can cause a loss in bone density, which is the opposite of what you want for heightmaxxing, ashwhaganda exists as a cheaper, safer and more available alternative.​
• If you have hypothyroidism get it treated by a doctor properly while taking HGH + AI at the same time​
• If all your values are normal, still take ashwaghanda, you could also take levothryoxine but I would be very catious about this as you dont want to fuck up your thyroid permanetly.​
• Make sure you take an aromatase inhibitor.​

Sources:

[1] Pedrón VT, Varani AP, Bettler B, Balerio GN. GABAB receptors modulate morphine antinociception: Pharmacological and genetic approaches. Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2019 May;180:11-21.
[2] Sharma AK, Basu I, Singh S. Efficacy and Safety of Ashwagandha Root Extract in Subclinical Hypothyroid Patients: A Double-Blind, Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial. J Altern Complement Med. 2018 Mar;24(3):243-248. doi: 10.1089/acm.2017.0183. Epub 2017 Aug 22. PMID: 28829155.
[3] Saranac L, Stamenkovic H, Stankovic T, et al. (2013) Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction. Current Topics in Hypothyroidism with Focus on Development. InTech. Available at: http://dx.doi.org/10.5772/55017.*
[4] Calissendorff J, Falhammar H. To Treat or Not to Treat Subclinical Hypothyroidism, What Is the Evidence? Medicina (Kaunas). 2020 Jan 19;56(1):40. doi: 10.3390/medicina56010040. PMID: 31963883; PMCID: PMC7022757.
[5] Juanita K Hodax, Lisa Swartz Topor, Shara R Bialo, Jose Bernardo Quintos, Anastrozole Improves Final Adult Height in Severe Hypothyroidism With Rapid Pubertal Progression, _Journal of the Endocrine Society_, Volume 5, Issue 5, May 2021, bvab025, [https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025](https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025)

Ashwagandha improves hypothyroidism but can make hyperthyroidism worse

 

[Deleted member 49130]

Ashwagandha improves hypothyroidism but can make hyperthyroidism worse

Yes. However having hyperthyroidism for a long time before starting heightmaxxing ruins your chances.

 

[macedonpsycho]

Unfortunately heightmaxxing without HGH / peptides at least is cope but how old are you I can still give you something you could try

im 15 +-172cm and i wanna get to 182cm i know thats impossible without peptides or hgh so im praying to grow more

 

[R@m@]

Cissus quadrangularis is one of the most underated supplements

 

[Deleted member 49130]

im 15 +-172cm and i wanna get to 182cm i know thats impossible without peptides or hgh so im praying to grow more

Nah if you take aromatase inhibitor you can keep growth plates open for as long as you take them at your age. Eat 2-4g/kg of protein and do HIIT and heavy weightlifting.

 

[macedonpsycho]

Nah if you take aromatase inhibitor you can keep growth plates open for as long as you take them at your age. Eat 2-4g/kg of protein and do HIIT and heavy weightlifting.

4g is way too much, but im around 65kg and eat 150g protein a day. Idk, AI could be good but i dont want to fuck with brain development and idk how id keep it from my parents. i already gymcel but mainly for hypertrophy so i do low volume high intensity but not necessarily for strength. hiit i dont do at all im too lazy

 

[Deleted member 49130]

4g is way too much, but im around 65kg and eat 150g protein a day. Idk, AI could be good but i dont want to fuck with brain development and idk how id keep it from my parents. i already gymcel but mainly for hypertrophy so i do low volume high intensity but not necessarily for strength. hiit i dont do at all im too lazy

High intensity is good for HGH release too. Tbh at your height you don't need to take anything, you will probably be fine.

 

[macedonpsycho]

High intensity is good for HGH release too. Tbh at your height you don't need to take anything, you will probably be fine.

i hope so. my dad is 178cm and my mom 156cm. yeah, i know hiit is good but thats short term hgh release which i dont think has that much effect.

 

[DildoFaggins]

copewagandha

 

[Osie]

Overview of thyroid gland:​

• The thyroid gland produces two hormones, T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine)​
• TSH (Thryoid Stimulating Hormone) is released by the pituitary gland to tell the thyroid to make more T3 and T4​
• Hypothyroidism is when your thyroid gland is underactive, in blood tests this can show as a high TSH level and low T3/T4 level​
• Hyperthyroidism is the opposite.​

Effects of Ashwhaganda​

• Ashwhaganda has many effects that may be usefull in heightmaxxing however, I am only going to discuss effects that have an effect on the thyroid hormones​
• It is well known Ashwhaganda decreases stress and decreases cortisol levels. It also acts as something called a "GABA mimetic". This is means it has a calming effect on your brain. GABA is the prominent inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, it promotes relaxation, calmness and sleep​
• In a clinical study following 50 people, ashwhaganda was shown to increase levels of T3 and T4 in the blood while decreasing TSH. This trial was a double blind RCT so it's results are likely legit. The dose used was the common 600mg dose too. It is likely it achieves this effect by lowering corisol.​

Relationship between thyroid hormones and IGF-1​

• IGF-1 is vital if you want to heightmax. You can increase your HGH all you want by gymmaxxing or injecting it or taking peptides etc, but if IGF-1 is not being synthesised in the liver or if your bones are not responding to it - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN​

Let me go into more detail for this. Here is an extract from a research paper: " Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction" full text source is in the sources at the end of this post[3].


This is claiming that without thyroid hormones, IGF1 synthesis will be limited, so you will have lower IGF1 levels to start of with even if you are dosing HGH. And most importantly: ". Cartilage response to IGF1 and osteoblastic/osteoclastic bone remodeling are also regulated by thyroid hormones." This means if you have hypothyroidism, or even subclinical hypothyroidism your bones will simply not respond to the IGF and you will not grow even if your growth plates are still open.

Subclinical hypothyroidism is defined by either borderline high TSH with normal T3/T4 levels or TSH. Unfortunatly many doctors will not treat subclinical hypothyroidism even if you are showing symptomps despite latest evidence saying to treat it. [4]. Alot of people have subclinical hypothryoidism without knowing it.

Relationship between thyroid hormones and growth plate closure​

This is a very important section. Hopefully this emphasises the importance of taking an aromatase inhibitor in your stack. That same research paper has the following claim:


This is very information dense so let me summarise:

• Hypothyroidism / Thyroid resistance slows growth plate senesence which leaves the growth plates open for longer​

​

So then why do we not want that? Growth plates being open for longer is good right?
Not in this case. Despite our growth plates being open for longer, low T3/T4 levels (or resistance to those hormones) will stop the effect of IGF-1 from taking place.
Also, once your thyroid hormones are working again, you will experience something called "catch up growth", where you will be growing at a much faster rate than normal - HOWEVER your growth plates will shut faster as well. So overall, you will grow less than someone without low levels of T3/T4.

Taking an aromatase inhibitor has been shown to keep the effects of rapid catch up growth while delaying growth plate closure. A dose of 1mg a day of anastrazole is safe to take with normal estrogen levels without experiencing the side effects (as this was used in the case report I am about to link, however it might be different for you)[5] https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025

What should you do?​

• Before starting your heightmaxxing stack ensure you get your thyroid hormones tested. Ensure T3 and T4 is tested as well as TSH, some doctors, especially in the UK will only test for TSH at first as it saves them money​
• If your T3 and T4 is in the lower half of normal and TSH is in the higher half of normal, take ashwhaganda with your heightmaxxing stack, consider taking levothryoxine but that is up to you to look into and decide. As taking too much thyroid hormones can cause a loss in bone density, which is the opposite of what you want for heightmaxxing, ashwhaganda exists as a cheaper, safer and more available alternative.​
• If you have hypothyroidism get it treated by a doctor properly while taking HGH + AI at the same time​
• If all your values are normal, still take ashwaghanda, you could also take levothryoxine but I would be very catious about this as you dont want to fuck up your thyroid permanetly.​
• Make sure you take an aromatase inhibitor.​

All of these thyroid threads coming out at the same time have me so excited to see future advancements in its research for heightmaxxing.

Great post, however, the reality is that even though Ashwaghnda has clinical efficacy for increasing thyroid values and reducing TSH, we don't even know to what extent it is helpful. It can technically be just as dangerous as certain dosages of levothyroxine for all we know as it's essentially doing the same thing depending on dosage.

Also, I know you didn't mean for this statement to be taken super literally (as you address it later on), but I feel like you should avoid hyperbolic claims when making informational threads (this isn't a critique, my opinion doesn't matter but just a thought!)

means if you have hypothyroidism, or even subclinical hypothyroidism your bones will simply not respond to the IGF and you will not grow even if your growth plates are still open

Being hypothyroid in specific cases, can be somewhat advantageous for heightmaxxing, as it affords you a lot more time in the growth process, which somewhat evens out the process. As aromatase deficient men tend to have really low IGF-1 levels, but grew to very taller statures, indicating that tall stature can also be achieved through the prolongment of growth rather than how high our IGF-1 values are throughout the whole time.

 

[Weter]

Overview of thyroid gland:​

• The thyroid gland produces two hormones, T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine)​
• TSH (Thryoid Stimulating Hormone) is released by the pituitary gland to tell the thyroid to make more T3 and T4​
• Hypothyroidism is when your thyroid gland is underactive, in blood tests this can show as a high TSH level and low T3/T4 level​
• Hyperthyroidism is the opposite.​

Effects of Ashwhaganda​

• Ashwhaganda has many effects that may be usefull in heightmaxxing however, I am only going to discuss effects that have an effect on the thyroid hormones​
• It is well known Ashwhaganda decreases stress and decreases cortisol levels. It also acts as something called a "GABA mimetic". This is means it has a calming effect on your brain. GABA is the prominent inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, it promotes relaxation, calmness and sleep​
• In a clinical study following 50 people, ashwhaganda was shown to increase levels of T3 and T4 in the blood while decreasing TSH. This trial was a double blind RCT so it's results are likely legit. The dose used was the common 600mg dose too. It is likely it achieves this effect by lowering corisol.​

Relationship between thyroid hormones and IGF-1​

• IGF-1 is vital if you want to heightmax. You can increase your HGH all you want by gymmaxxing or injecting it or taking peptides etc, but if IGF-1 is not being synthesised in the liver or if your bones are not responding to it - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN​

Let me go into more detail for this. Here is an extract from a research paper: " Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction" full text source is in the sources at the end of this post[3].


This is claiming that without thyroid hormones, IGF1 synthesis will be limited, so you will have lower IGF1 levels to start of with even if you are dosing HGH. And most importantly: ". Cartilage response to IGF1 and osteoblastic/osteoclastic bone remodeling are also regulated by thyroid hormones." This means if you have hypothyroidism, or even subclinical hypothyroidism your bones will simply not respond to the IGF and you will not grow even if your growth plates are still open.

Subclinical hypothyroidism is defined by either borderline high TSH with normal T3/T4 levels or TSH. Unfortunatly many doctors will not treat subclinical hypothyroidism even if you are showing symptomps despite latest evidence saying to treat it. [4]. Alot of people have subclinical hypothryoidism without knowing it.

Relationship between thyroid hormones and growth plate closure​

This is a very important section. Hopefully this emphasises the importance of taking an aromatase inhibitor in your stack. That same research paper has the following claim:


This is very information dense so let me summarise:

• Hypothyroidism / Thyroid resistance slows growth plate senesence which leaves the growth plates open for longer​

​

So then why do we not want that? Growth plates being open for longer is good right?
Not in this case. Despite our growth plates being open for longer, low T3/T4 levels (or resistance to those hormones) will stop the effect of IGF-1 from taking place.
Also, once your thyroid hormones are working again, you will experience something called "catch up growth", where you will be growing at a much faster rate than normal - HOWEVER your growth plates will shut faster as well. So overall, you will grow less than someone without low levels of T3/T4.

Taking an aromatase inhibitor has been shown to keep the effects of rapid catch up growth while delaying growth plate closure. A dose of 1mg a day of anastrazole is safe to take with normal estrogen levels without experiencing the side effects (as this was used in the case report I am about to link, however it might be different for you)[5] https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025

What should you do?​

• Before starting your heightmaxxing stack ensure you get your thyroid hormones tested. Ensure T3 and T4 is tested as well as TSH, some doctors, especially in the UK will only test for TSH at first as it saves them money​
• If your T3 and T4 is in the lower half of normal and TSH is in the higher half of normal, take ashwhaganda with your heightmaxxing stack, consider taking levothryoxine but that is up to you to look into and decide. As taking too much thyroid hormones can cause a loss in bone density, which is the opposite of what you want for heightmaxxing, ashwhaganda exists as a cheaper, safer and more available alternative.​
• If you have hypothyroidism get it treated by a doctor properly while taking HGH + AI at the same time​
• If all your values are normal, still take ashwaghanda, you could also take levothryoxine but I would be very catious about this as you dont want to fuck up your thyroid permanetly.​
• Make sure you take an aromatase inhibitor.​

Sources:

[1] Pedrón VT, Varani AP, Bettler B, Balerio GN. GABAB receptors modulate morphine antinociception: Pharmacological and genetic approaches. Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2019 May;180:11-21.
[2] Sharma AK, Basu I, Singh S. Efficacy and Safety of Ashwagandha Root Extract in Subclinical Hypothyroid Patients: A Double-Blind, Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial. J Altern Complement Med. 2018 Mar;24(3):243-248. doi: 10.1089/acm.2017.0183. Epub 2017 Aug 22. PMID: 28829155.
[3] Saranac L, Stamenkovic H, Stankovic T, et al. (2013) Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction. Current Topics in Hypothyroidism with Focus on Development. InTech. Available at: http://dx.doi.org/10.5772/55017.*
[4] Calissendorff J, Falhammar H. To Treat or Not to Treat Subclinical Hypothyroidism, What Is the Evidence? Medicina (Kaunas). 2020 Jan 19;56(1):40. doi: 10.3390/medicina56010040. PMID: 31963883; PMCID: PMC7022757.
[5] Juanita K Hodax, Lisa Swartz Topor, Shara R Bialo, Jose Bernardo Quintos, Anastrozole Improves Final Adult Height in Severe Hypothyroidism With Rapid Pubertal Progression, _Journal of the Endocrine Society_, Volume 5, Issue 5, May 2021, bvab025, [https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025](https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025)

safe at 15 yo?

 

[Deleted member 49130]

safe at 15 yo?

just ashwhagandha? I would say that is safe but you may get some side effects such as gynacomasteia.

 

[enchanted_elixir]

Overview of thyroid gland:​

• The thyroid gland produces two hormones, T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine)​
• TSH (Thryoid Stimulating Hormone) is released by the pituitary gland to tell the thyroid to make more T3 and T4​
• Hypothyroidism is when your thyroid gland is underactive, in blood tests this can show as a high TSH level and low T3/T4 level​
• Hyperthyroidism is the opposite.​

Effects of Ashwhaganda​

• Ashwhaganda has many effects that may be usefull in heightmaxxing however, I am only going to discuss effects that have an effect on the thyroid hormones​
• It is well known Ashwhaganda decreases stress and decreases cortisol levels. It also acts as something called a "GABA mimetic". This is means it has a calming effect on your brain. GABA is the prominent inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, it promotes relaxation, calmness and sleep​
• In a clinical study following 50 people, ashwhaganda was shown to increase levels of T3 and T4 in the blood while decreasing TSH. This trial was a double blind RCT so it's results are likely legit. The dose used was the common 600mg dose too. It is likely it achieves this effect by lowering corisol.​

Relationship between thyroid hormones and IGF-1​

• IGF-1 is vital if you want to heightmax. You can increase your HGH all you want by gymmaxxing or injecting it or taking peptides etc, but if IGF-1 is not being synthesised in the liver or if your bones are not responding to it - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN​

Let me go into more detail for this. Here is an extract from a research paper: " Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction" full text source is in the sources at the end of this post[3].


This is claiming that without thyroid hormones, IGF1 synthesis will be limited, so you will have lower IGF1 levels to start of with even if you are dosing HGH. And most importantly: ". Cartilage response to IGF1 and osteoblastic/osteoclastic bone remodeling are also regulated by thyroid hormones." This means if you have hypothyroidism, or even subclinical hypothyroidism your bones will simply not respond to the IGF and you will not grow even if your growth plates are still open.

Subclinical hypothyroidism is defined by either borderline high TSH with normal T3/T4 levels or TSH. Unfortunatly many doctors will not treat subclinical hypothyroidism even if you are showing symptomps despite latest evidence saying to treat it. [4]. Alot of people have subclinical hypothryoidism without knowing it.

Relationship between thyroid hormones and growth plate closure​

This is a very important section. Hopefully this emphasises the importance of taking an aromatase inhibitor in your stack. That same research paper has the following claim:


This is very information dense so let me summarise:

• Hypothyroidism / Thyroid resistance slows growth plate senesence which leaves the growth plates open for longer​

​

So then why do we not want that? Growth plates being open for longer is good right?
Not in this case. Despite our growth plates being open for longer, low T3/T4 levels (or resistance to those hormones) will stop the effect of IGF-1 from taking place.
Also, once your thyroid hormones are working again, you will experience something called "catch up growth", where you will be growing at a much faster rate than normal - HOWEVER your growth plates will shut faster as well. So overall, you will grow less than someone without low levels of T3/T4.

Taking an aromatase inhibitor has been shown to keep the effects of rapid catch up growth while delaying growth plate closure. A dose of 1mg a day of anastrazole is safe to take with normal estrogen levels without experiencing the side effects (as this was used in the case report I am about to link, however it might be different for you)[5] https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025

What should you do?​

• Before starting your heightmaxxing stack ensure you get your thyroid hormones tested. Ensure T3 and T4 is tested as well as TSH, some doctors, especially in the UK will only test for TSH at first as it saves them money​
• If your T3 and T4 is in the lower half of normal and TSH is in the higher half of normal, take ashwhaganda with your heightmaxxing stack, consider taking levothryoxine but that is up to you to look into and decide. As taking too much thyroid hormones can cause a loss in bone density, which is the opposite of what you want for heightmaxxing, ashwhaganda exists as a cheaper, safer and more available alternative.​
• If you have hypothyroidism get it treated by a doctor properly while taking HGH + AI at the same time​
• If all your values are normal, still take ashwaghanda, you could also take levothryoxine but I would be very catious about this as you dont want to fuck up your thyroid permanetly.​
• Make sure you take an aromatase inhibitor.​

Sources:

[1] Pedrón VT, Varani AP, Bettler B, Balerio GN. GABAB receptors modulate morphine antinociception: Pharmacological and genetic approaches. Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2019 May;180:11-21.
[2] Sharma AK, Basu I, Singh S. Efficacy and Safety of Ashwagandha Root Extract in Subclinical Hypothyroid Patients: A Double-Blind, Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial. J Altern Complement Med. 2018 Mar;24(3):243-248. doi: 10.1089/acm.2017.0183. Epub 2017 Aug 22. PMID: 28829155.
[3] Saranac L, Stamenkovic H, Stankovic T, et al. (2013) Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction. Current Topics in Hypothyroidism with Focus on Development. InTech. Available at: http://dx.doi.org/10.5772/55017.*
[4] Calissendorff J, Falhammar H. To Treat or Not to Treat Subclinical Hypothyroidism, What Is the Evidence? Medicina (Kaunas). 2020 Jan 19;56(1):40. doi: 10.3390/medicina56010040. PMID: 31963883; PMCID: PMC7022757.
[5] Juanita K Hodax, Lisa Swartz Topor, Shara R Bialo, Jose Bernardo Quintos, Anastrozole Improves Final Adult Height in Severe Hypothyroidism With Rapid Pubertal Progression, _Journal of the Endocrine Society_, Volume 5, Issue 5, May 2021, bvab025, [https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025](https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025)

Great thread!

 

[enchanted_elixir]

good thread op, whats a natural heightmaxxing supplement stack u recommend along with ashwaghanda? (with dosages)

Iodine, Selenium and Zinc can also assist with t4 and t3 production.

 

[macedonpsycho]

Iodine, Selenium and Zinc can also assist with t4 and t3 production.

alright! already taking a multi mineral and just told my mom to get iodized table salt. dont know what i need to do for the rest. idk if this can affect anything but this summer at 6 july i was really sick with vertigo so i got a blood test done and it showed that i had 2.1 tsh. i see people talking about bitiron and that 0 tsh is best. thoughts?

 

[Mezo103]

Can you take ashwagnada only to treat subclinical hypothyroidism?

 

[Mezo103]

Didn’t read but it doesn’t work after growth plate close correct ?

No get LL

 

[ezio6]

Aswagandha will fix incel problem

 

[Weter]

just ashwhagandha? I would say that is safe but you may get some side effects such as gynacomasteia.

How exactly will it give gyno, if its supposed to boost test not estrogen

 

[Weter]

Overview of thyroid gland:​

• The thyroid gland produces two hormones, T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine)​
• TSH (Thryoid Stimulating Hormone) is released by the pituitary gland to tell the thyroid to make more T3 and T4​
• Hypothyroidism is when your thyroid gland is underactive, in blood tests this can show as a high TSH level and low T3/T4 level​
• Hyperthyroidism is the opposite.​

Effects of Ashwhaganda​

• Ashwhaganda has many effects that may be usefull in heightmaxxing however, I am only going to discuss effects that have an effect on the thyroid hormones​
• It is well known Ashwhaganda decreases stress and decreases cortisol levels. It also acts as something called a "GABA mimetic". This is means it has a calming effect on your brain. GABA is the prominent inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, it promotes relaxation, calmness and sleep​
• In a clinical study following 50 people, ashwhaganda was shown to increase levels of T3 and T4 in the blood while decreasing TSH. This trial was a double blind RCT so it's results are likely legit. The dose used was the common 600mg dose too. It is likely it achieves this effect by lowering corisol.​

Relationship between thyroid hormones and IGF-1​

• IGF-1 is vital if you want to heightmax. You can increase your HGH all you want by gymmaxxing or injecting it or taking peptides etc, but if IGF-1 is not being synthesised in the liver or if your bones are not responding to it - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN​

Let me go into more detail for this. Here is an extract from a research paper: " Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction" full text source is in the sources at the end of this post[3].


This is claiming that without thyroid hormones, IGF1 synthesis will be limited, so you will have lower IGF1 levels to start of with even if you are dosing HGH. And most importantly: ". Cartilage response to IGF1 and osteoblastic/osteoclastic bone remodeling are also regulated by thyroid hormones." This means if you have hypothyroidism, or even subclinical hypothyroidism your bones will simply not respond to the IGF and you will not grow even if your growth plates are still open.

Subclinical hypothyroidism is defined by either borderline high TSH with normal T3/T4 levels or TSH. Unfortunatly many doctors will not treat subclinical hypothyroidism even if you are showing symptomps despite latest evidence saying to treat it. [4]. Alot of people have subclinical hypothryoidism without knowing it.

Relationship between thyroid hormones and growth plate closure​

This is a very important section. Hopefully this emphasises the importance of taking an aromatase inhibitor in your stack. That same research paper has the following claim:


This is very information dense so let me summarise:

• Hypothyroidism / Thyroid resistance slows growth plate senesence which leaves the growth plates open for longer​

​

So then why do we not want that? Growth plates being open for longer is good right?
Not in this case. Despite our growth plates being open for longer, low T3/T4 levels (or resistance to those hormones) will stop the effect of IGF-1 from taking place.
Also, once your thyroid hormones are working again, you will experience something called "catch up growth", where you will be growing at a much faster rate than normal - HOWEVER your growth plates will shut faster as well. So overall, you will grow less than someone without low levels of T3/T4.

Taking an aromatase inhibitor has been shown to keep the effects of rapid catch up growth while delaying growth plate closure. A dose of 1mg a day of anastrazole is safe to take with normal estrogen levels without experiencing the side effects (as this was used in the case report I am about to link, however it might be different for you)[5] https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025

What should you do?​

• Before starting your heightmaxxing stack ensure you get your thyroid hormones tested. Ensure T3 and T4 is tested as well as TSH, some doctors, especially in the UK will only test for TSH at first as it saves them money​
• If your T3 and T4 is in the lower half of normal and TSH is in the higher half of normal, take ashwhaganda with your heightmaxxing stack, consider taking levothryoxine but that is up to you to look into and decide. As taking too much thyroid hormones can cause a loss in bone density, which is the opposite of what you want for heightmaxxing, ashwhaganda exists as a cheaper, safer and more available alternative.​
• If you have hypothyroidism get it treated by a doctor properly while taking HGH + AI at the same time​
• If all your values are normal, still take ashwaghanda, you could also take levothryoxine but I would be very catious about this as you dont want to fuck up your thyroid permanetly.​
• Make sure you take an aromatase inhibitor.​

Sources:

[1] Pedrón VT, Varani AP, Bettler B, Balerio GN. GABAB receptors modulate morphine antinociception: Pharmacological and genetic approaches. Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2019 May;180:11-21.
[2] Sharma AK, Basu I, Singh S. Efficacy and Safety of Ashwagandha Root Extract in Subclinical Hypothyroid Patients: A Double-Blind, Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial. J Altern Complement Med. 2018 Mar;24(3):243-248. doi: 10.1089/acm.2017.0183. Epub 2017 Aug 22. PMID: 28829155.
[3] Saranac L, Stamenkovic H, Stankovic T, et al. (2013) Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction. Current Topics in Hypothyroidism with Focus on Development. InTech. Available at: http://dx.doi.org/10.5772/55017.*
[4] Calissendorff J, Falhammar H. To Treat or Not to Treat Subclinical Hypothyroidism, What Is the Evidence? Medicina (Kaunas). 2020 Jan 19;56(1):40. doi: 10.3390/medicina56010040. PMID: 31963883; PMCID: PMC7022757.
[5] Juanita K Hodax, Lisa Swartz Topor, Shara R Bialo, Jose Bernardo Quintos, Anastrozole Improves Final Adult Height in Severe Hypothyroidism With Rapid Pubertal Progression, _Journal of the Endocrine Society_, Volume 5, Issue 5, May 2021, bvab025, [https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025](https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025)

What will be the optimal dosage of ashwagandha for 15 yo with normal TSH, T3, T4 levels

 

[Deleted member 49130]

How exactly will it give gyno, if its supposed to boost test not estrogen

In men there is an enzyme called aromatase which converts testosterone to oestrogen. The more test you have the more oestrogen will be produced. This is why when we heightmaxx/some bodybuilders take aromatase inhibitor to lower the action of this enzyme. Some people are naturally more sensitive to effects of increased test as well.

What will be the optimal dosage of ashwagandha for 15 yo with normal TSH, T3, T4 levels

What purpose are you wanting it for?
If you want it for just the test boost/mental health/low inhib take 400-600mg daily before bed. One month on, one month off, you can cycle for shorter than that, sometimes I take for 2-3 weeks until my mood stabilises then go off it for a month or two. Just don't do every other day or longer than one month at a time you may develop emotional numbness

If you want it for other purposes it is safe up to 1000mg so use blood test results to guide optimal dosage.

 

[Weter]

In men there is an enzyme called aromatase which converts testosterone to oestrogen. The more test you have the more oestrogen will be produced. This is why when we heightmaxx/some bodybuilders take aromatase inhibitor to lower the action of this enzyme. Some people are naturally more sensitive to effects of increased test as well.

What purpose are you wanting it for?
If you want it for just the test boost/mental health/low inhib take 400-600mg daily before bed. One month on, one month off, you can cycle for shorter than that, sometimes I take for 2-3 weeks until my mood stabilises then go off it for a month or two. Just don't do every other day or longer than one month at a time you may develop emotional numbness

If you want it for other purposes it is safe up to 1000mg so use blood test results to guide optimal dosage.

Thanks, id like it for height growing and "pubertymaxxing" is 1000mg safe? And what chracteristics do i need to look up for in blood test?

 

[Deleted member 49130]

Thanks, id like it for height growing and "pubertymaxxing" is 1000mg safe? And what chracteristics do i need to look up for in blood test?

TSH T3 T4 Tesosterone SHBG Prolactin Estradiol. Repeat onec before starting then 1 month into taking it. If you have no issues you dont need to repeat it if you are cycling it. If you are taking it constantly I would repeat the tests monthly for as long as your taking it.

 

[Osie]

Hey, check this out@wamenwanter:

Ashwagandha can also very easily give you hyperthyroidism as well, as this study pointed out: Ashwagandha as a Unique Cause of Thyrotoxicosis Presenting With Supraventricular Tachycardia.

As the study points out Ashwaghnda contains an amount of thyroid hormone that can treat hypothyroidism in itself, exposing people to hyperthyroidism: "In addition to that, Kang et al. found evidence that commercially available supplements including Ashwagandha, contain amounts of T3 and T4 that exceed the doses required to treat hypothyroidism, exposing patients to a risk of iatrogenic thyrotoxicosis."

I think thyroid hormone is even a trickier line to handle than we think, as even Ashwaghnda, something that isn't even a pharmaceutical drug for thyroid hormone can treat hypothyroidism, meaning that people with normal thyroid levels can easily get hyperthyroidism from Ashwagandha if not careful with their dosing. While thyroid hormone seems very attractive to us heightmaxxers, it seems like the line between normal thyroid health and hyperthyroidism is very small and it'll almost be impossible not to deal with actual hyperthyroid effects, but that also comes with it's more negative side effects (rapid heart rate, constant energy causing no sleep, bulging eyes).

As it seems like Ashwaghnda increases our thyroid values and reduces our TSH by "primarily stimulating our thyroid gland to synthesize and/or secrete thyroxine."

As that same study noted how when Ashwaghnda was used in rats, it caused a 111% increase in T4 and only an 18% in serum T3 values, and since T4 is the most prevalent thyroid hormone and is made only in the thyroid gland, ashwaghanda's main method of increasing our thyroid values most likely is through stimulation of our thyroid gland.

 

[enchanted_elixir]

alright! already taking a multi mineral and just told my mom to get iodized table salt. dont know what i need to do for the rest. idk if this can affect anything but this summer at 6 july i was really sick with vertigo so i got a blood test done and it showed that i had 2.1 tsh. i see people talking about bitiron and that 0 tsh is best. thoughts?

Make sure you also take things like tyrosine (found in foods or supplements) and iodine (you'll probably need more than recommended daily value). If the salt itself can't provide you with more than the recommended daily iodine, then you'll have to supplement or get it from food. We're talking like 2 times daily value. More if you wish.

 

[looksmidder]

Overview of thyroid gland:​

• The thyroid gland produces two hormones, T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine)​
• TSH (Thryoid Stimulating Hormone) is released by the pituitary gland to tell the thyroid to make more T3 and T4​
• Hypothyroidism is when your thyroid gland is underactive, in blood tests this can show as a high TSH level and low T3/T4 level​
• Hyperthyroidism is the opposite.​

Effects of Ashwhaganda​

• Ashwhaganda has many effects that may be usefull in heightmaxxing however, I am only going to discuss effects that have an effect on the thyroid hormones​
• It is well known Ashwhaganda decreases stress and decreases cortisol levels. It also acts as something called a "GABA mimetic". This is means it has a calming effect on your brain. GABA is the prominent inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, it promotes relaxation, calmness and sleep​
• In a clinical study following 50 people, ashwhaganda was shown to increase levels of T3 and T4 in the blood while decreasing TSH. This trial was a double blind RCT so it's results are likely legit. The dose used was the common 600mg dose too. It is likely it achieves this effect by lowering corisol.​

Relationship between thyroid hormones and IGF-1​

• IGF-1 is vital if you want to heightmax. You can increase your HGH all you want by gymmaxxing or injecting it or taking peptides etc, but if IGF-1 is not being synthesised in the liver or if your bones are not responding to it - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN​

Let me go into more detail for this. Here is an extract from a research paper: " Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction" full text source is in the sources at the end of this post[3].


This is claiming that without thyroid hormones, IGF1 synthesis will be limited, so you will have lower IGF1 levels to start of with even if you are dosing HGH. And most importantly: ". Cartilage response to IGF1 and osteoblastic/osteoclastic bone remodeling are also regulated by thyroid hormones." This means if you have hypothyroidism, or even subclinical hypothyroidism your bones will simply not respond to the IGF and you will not grow even if your growth plates are still open.

Subclinical hypothyroidism is defined by either borderline high TSH with normal T3/T4 levels or TSH. Unfortunatly many doctors will not treat subclinical hypothyroidism even if you are showing symptomps despite latest evidence saying to treat it. [4]. Alot of people have subclinical hypothryoidism without knowing it.

Relationship between thyroid hormones and growth plate closure​

This is a very important section. Hopefully this emphasises the importance of taking an aromatase inhibitor in your stack. That same research paper has the following claim:


This is very information dense so let me summarise:

• Hypothyroidism / Thyroid resistance slows growth plate senesence which leaves the growth plates open for longer​

​

So then why do we not want that? Growth plates being open for longer is good right?
Not in this case. Despite our growth plates being open for longer, low T3/T4 levels (or resistance to those hormones) will stop the effect of IGF-1 from taking place.
Also, once your thyroid hormones are working again, you will experience something called "catch up growth", where you will be growing at a much faster rate than normal - HOWEVER your growth plates will shut faster as well. So overall, you will grow less than someone without low levels of T3/T4.

Taking an aromatase inhibitor has been shown to keep the effects of rapid catch up growth while delaying growth plate closure. A dose of 1mg a day of anastrazole is safe to take with normal estrogen levels without experiencing the side effects (as this was used in the case report I am about to link, however it might be different for you)[5] https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025

What should you do?​

• Before starting your heightmaxxing stack ensure you get your thyroid hormones tested. Ensure T3 and T4 is tested as well as TSH, some doctors, especially in the UK will only test for TSH at first as it saves them money​
• If your T3 and T4 is in the lower half of normal and TSH is in the higher half of normal, take ashwhaganda with your heightmaxxing stack, consider taking levothryoxine but that is up to you to look into and decide. As taking too much thyroid hormones can cause a loss in bone density, which is the opposite of what you want for heightmaxxing, ashwhaganda exists as a cheaper, safer and more available alternative.​
• If you have hypothyroidism get it treated by a doctor properly while taking HGH + AI at the same time​
• If all your values are normal, still take ashwaghanda, you could also take levothryoxine but I would be very catious about this as you dont want to fuck up your thyroid permanetly.​
• Make sure you take an aromatase inhibitor.​

Sources:

[1] Pedrón VT, Varani AP, Bettler B, Balerio GN. GABAB receptors modulate morphine antinociception: Pharmacological and genetic approaches. Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2019 May;180:11-21.
[2] Sharma AK, Basu I, Singh S. Efficacy and Safety of Ashwagandha Root Extract in Subclinical Hypothyroid Patients: A Double-Blind, Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial. J Altern Complement Med. 2018 Mar;24(3):243-248. doi: 10.1089/acm.2017.0183. Epub 2017 Aug 22. PMID: 28829155.
[3] Saranac L, Stamenkovic H, Stankovic T, et al. (2013) Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction. Current Topics in Hypothyroidism with Focus on Development. InTech. Available at: http://dx.doi.org/10.5772/55017.*
[4] Calissendorff J, Falhammar H. To Treat or Not to Treat Subclinical Hypothyroidism, What Is the Evidence? Medicina (Kaunas). 2020 Jan 19;56(1):40. doi: 10.3390/medicina56010040. PMID: 31963883; PMCID: PMC7022757.
[5] Juanita K Hodax, Lisa Swartz Topor, Shara R Bialo, Jose Bernardo Quintos, Anastrozole Improves Final Adult Height in Severe Hypothyroidism With Rapid Pubertal Progression, _Journal of the Endocrine Society_, Volume 5, Issue 5, May 2021, bvab025, [https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025](https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025)

do you have a uk source of anastrazole? and would you need to slowly increase the dose to keep plates open?

 

[Deleted member 49130]

do you have a uk source of anastrazole? and would you need to slowly increase the dose to keep plates open?

No lmk if u find

 

[enchanted_elixir]

I know I said this already but I will say it again, great thread!

 

[AlphaLooksmaxxer666]

tldr: take ashwangdha for height

 

[AlphaLooksmaxxer666]

great thread btw

 

[manletfuel]

Overview of thyroid gland:​

• The thyroid gland produces two hormones, T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine)​
• TSH (Thryoid Stimulating Hormone) is released by the pituitary gland to tell the thyroid to make more T3 and T4​
• Hypothyroidism is when your thyroid gland is underactive, in blood tests this can show as a high TSH level and low T3/T4 level​
• Hyperthyroidism is the opposite.​

Effects of Ashwhaganda​

• Ashwhaganda has many effects that may be usefull in heightmaxxing however, I am only going to discuss effects that have an effect on the thyroid hormones​
• It is well known Ashwhaganda decreases stress and decreases cortisol levels. It also acts as something called a "GABA mimetic". This is means it has a calming effect on your brain. GABA is the prominent inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, it promotes relaxation, calmness and sleep​
• In a clinical study following 50 people, ashwhaganda was shown to increase levels of T3 and T4 in the blood while decreasing TSH. This trial was a double blind RCT so it's results are likely legit. The dose used was the common 600mg dose too. It is likely it achieves this effect by lowering corisol.​

Relationship between thyroid hormones and IGF-1​

• IGF-1 is vital if you want to heightmax. You can increase your HGH all you want by gymmaxxing or injecting it or taking peptides etc, but if IGF-1 is not being synthesised in the liver or if your bones are not responding to it - NOTHING WILL HAPPEN​

Let me go into more detail for this. Here is an extract from a research paper: " Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction" full text source is in the sources at the end of this post[3].


This is claiming that without thyroid hormones, IGF1 synthesis will be limited, so you will have lower IGF1 levels to start of with even if you are dosing HGH. And most importantly: ". Cartilage response to IGF1 and osteoblastic/osteoclastic bone remodeling are also regulated by thyroid hormones." This means if you have hypothyroidism, or even subclinical hypothyroidism your bones will simply not respond to the IGF and you will not grow even if your growth plates are still open.

Subclinical hypothyroidism is defined by either borderline high TSH with normal T3/T4 levels or TSH. Unfortunatly many doctors will not treat subclinical hypothyroidism even if you are showing symptomps despite latest evidence saying to treat it. [4]. Alot of people have subclinical hypothryoidism without knowing it.

Relationship between thyroid hormones and growth plate closure​

This is a very important section. Hopefully this emphasises the importance of taking an aromatase inhibitor in your stack. That same research paper has the following claim:


This is very information dense so let me summarise:

• Hypothyroidism / Thyroid resistance slows growth plate senesence which leaves the growth plates open for longer​

​

So then why do we not want that? Growth plates being open for longer is good right?
Not in this case. Despite our growth plates being open for longer, low T3/T4 levels (or resistance to those hormones) will stop the effect of IGF-1 from taking place.
Also, once your thyroid hormones are working again, you will experience something called "catch up growth", where you will be growing at a much faster rate than normal - HOWEVER your growth plates will shut faster as well. So overall, you will grow less than someone without low levels of T3/T4.

Taking an aromatase inhibitor has been shown to keep the effects of rapid catch up growth while delaying growth plate closure. A dose of 1mg a day of anastrazole is safe to take with normal estrogen levels without experiencing the side effects (as this was used in the case report I am about to link, however it might be different for you)[5] https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025

What should you do?​

• Before starting your heightmaxxing stack ensure you get your thyroid hormones tested. Ensure T3 and T4 is tested as well as TSH, some doctors, especially in the UK will only test for TSH at first as it saves them money​
• If your T3 and T4 is in the lower half of normal and TSH is in the higher half of normal, take ashwhaganda with your heightmaxxing stack, consider taking levothryoxine but that is up to you to look into and decide. As taking too much thyroid hormones can cause a loss in bone density, which is the opposite of what you want for heightmaxxing, ashwhaganda exists as a cheaper, safer and more available alternative.​
• If you have hypothyroidism get it treated by a doctor properly while taking HGH + AI at the same time​
• If all your values are normal, still take ashwaghanda, you could also take levothryoxine but I would be very catious about this as you dont want to fuck up your thyroid permanetly.​
• Make sure you take an aromatase inhibitor.​

Sources:

[1] Pedrón VT, Varani AP, Bettler B, Balerio GN. GABAB receptors modulate morphine antinociception: Pharmacological and genetic approaches. Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2019 May;180:11-21.
[2] Sharma AK, Basu I, Singh S. Efficacy and Safety of Ashwagandha Root Extract in Subclinical Hypothyroid Patients: A Double-Blind, Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial. J Altern Complement Med. 2018 Mar;24(3):243-248. doi: 10.1089/acm.2017.0183. Epub 2017 Aug 22. PMID: 28829155.
[3] Saranac L, Stamenkovic H, Stankovic T, et al. (2013) Growth in Children with Thyroid Dysfunction. Current Topics in Hypothyroidism with Focus on Development. InTech. Available at: http://dx.doi.org/10.5772/55017.*
[4] Calissendorff J, Falhammar H. To Treat or Not to Treat Subclinical Hypothyroidism, What Is the Evidence? Medicina (Kaunas). 2020 Jan 19;56(1):40. doi: 10.3390/medicina56010040. PMID: 31963883; PMCID: PMC7022757.
[5] Juanita K Hodax, Lisa Swartz Topor, Shara R Bialo, Jose Bernardo Quintos, Anastrozole Improves Final Adult Height in Severe Hypothyroidism With Rapid Pubertal Progression, _Journal of the Endocrine Society_, Volume 5, Issue 5, May 2021, bvab025, [https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025](https://doi.org/10.1210/jendso/bvab025)

So basically just blast steroids

 

[barnmatrix]

Not in this case. Despite our growth plates being open for longer, low T3/T4 levels (or resistance to those hormones) will stop the effect of IGF-1 from taking place.
Also, once your thyroid hormones are working again, you will experience something called "catch up growth", where you will be growing at a much faster rate than normal - HOWEVER your growth plates will shut faster as well. So overall, you will grow less than someone without low levels of T3/T4.

Very solid thread. Important to note that the only reason hyperthyroidism or high levels of thyroid hormones induces growth plate closure is because of an increase in overall male and female sex hormones, specifically estrodiol. So having high thyroid hormones with low estrodiol (from using an AI) will not result in growth plate closure if estrodiol is low enough.

 

[whey123456]

dnr, do i continue to take ganda or drop it?

 

[IAMNOTANINCEL]

its a toxin

 

[Roge]

how do i know if i have hypo/hyperthyroidism?

 

[whey123456]

how do i know if i have hypo/hyperthyroidism?

Low Energy, shit FFMI, Low mood

 

[Roge]

Low Energy, shit FFMI, Low mood

i have low energy, low mood but if ffmi means fat free mass index - i have it pretty good

 

[Deleted member 49130]

how do i know if i have hypo/hyperthyroidism?

blood test is only way to know for sure