I don't see any point dieting and training without roids

Mujahid

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A little bit of muscle while being ripped is what women desire, being ripped will also enhance facial aesthetics, the only people who really give a shit about being BIG and lean are stupid gym bros.
Roids can also cuck your collagen, which will definitely destroy your smv.
 

ZyzzReincarnate

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1 year? If you are already fit and have god-tier genetics.
all of my friends and i started lifting at the same time we all got a decent amount of muscle and abs within a year with proper training.
 

bobs_pls

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Nah but you can get 'toned' and 'abs' and girls will like that. Without roids you won't look much different in a shirt though.
I think it's very beneficial to train traps and neck to look better in a shirt :)
 

Zeta ascended

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all of my friends and i started lifting at the same time we all got a decent amount of muscle and abs within a year with proper training.
You took sarms right? How much faster were you're results with it? I might use some when I start bulking.
 

Potatoshoe12

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Watch vitruvian physique or old era bodybuilders (i mean 1800) Thats preety big, or just go 20% bodyfat bearmode like alphadestiny for the winter, I dunno about USA but in Poland it works like a charm.
 

Mujahid

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Tell me more about that.
Look at any young bodybuilders collagen. (Even fitness models).

Jeff's Isn't that bad, but you aren't Jeff seid, you have no idea what could happen to your collagen even on the lowest amounts of gear, not to mention a wide array of other side effects, all for what? Not worth it imo, stay natty and build the physique women like NATURALLY.
from over a hundred hours of research and getiing my collagen raped by 750mgs of test
Please link me some studies on that.
 

luksmax

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Look at any young bodybuilders collagen. (Even fitness models).

Jeff's Isn't that bad, but you aren't Jeff seid, you have no idea what could happen to your collagen even on the lowest amounts of gear, not to mention a wide array of other side effects, all for what? Not worth it imo, stay natty and build the physique women like NATURALLY.
Jeff looks fine, David Laid also looks fine (and he is on roids for some time). I dunno about giant guys, but thats not what I want anyway.
I'll pay the price.
 

Mujahid

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Jeff looks fine, David Laid also looks fine (and he is on roids for some time). I dunno about giant guys, but thats not what I want anyway.
I'll pay the price.
Good luck boyo
 

Rimcel

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It depends on your genetics. My friend got really huge after like 4 months of dedicated gymceling. But he has big wrists, wide shoulders and good muscle insertions. If you are like him you won’t need any roids. If your genetics are mediocre it is either years of hardcore training or roids. But even after that you will still look inferior compared to naturally gifted people
 

Alexanderr

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Several studies have shown that toilets prefer atheletic body’s instead of big ones.
 

luksmax

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The second one is obvious not natty.
It depends on your genetics. My friend got really huge after like 4 months of dedicated gymceling. But he has big wrists, wide shoulders and good muscle insertions. If you are like him you won’t need any roids. If your genetics are mediocre it is either years of hardcore training or roids. But even after that you will still look inferior compared to naturally gifted people
I don't have good genetics. Ectomorph.
Several studies have shown that toilets prefer atheletic body’s instead of big ones.
Which studies?
I don't wanna be HUGE. David Laid is a good parameter for me.
 

Rimcel

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The second one is obvious not natty.

I don't have good genetics. Ectomorph.

Which studies?
I don't wanna be HUGE. David Laid is a good parameter for me.
If you have bad genetics you won’t be huge no matter what you do. So no worries here
 

NickGurr

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He’s referring to the modeling industry.
It still doesn't really matter, especially for him

Sure, if he was more musclar he'd go up by maybe 0. something PSL, but he'd pretty much go from JBs following him to JBs following him

Same goes for the average PSL user. Maybe training neck and getting more buff will bring you up 0. something PSL or maybe even 1, but really you will go from girls being disgusted by you to girls not being interested in you
 

Madness

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It still doesn't really matter, especially for him

Sure, if he was more musclar he'd go up by maybe 0. something PSL, but he'd pretty much go from JBs following him to JBs following him

Same goes for the average PSL user. Maybe training neck and getting more buff will bring you up 0. something PSL or maybe even 1, but really you will go from girls being disgusted by you to girls not being interested in you
I agree with the Chico part but the average psl user can go up 1-2 psl with a gymcelled body
 

Madness

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No way. Maximum is 1, especially if he is an octomorph.

2 PSL if gymcelling would make you taller
I would say the average psl user claims 6 feet anyways. You would be surprised how much a body can do for you
 

Zeta ascended

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No way. Maximum is 1, especially if he is an octomorph.

2 PSL if gymcelling would make you taller
Gymcelling is ineffective if your sub4, short or framecel. For me it could transform my body from skinny fat to athletic in two years which is an smv boost.
 

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