I need help with my training program

[Matheus]

It's been a bit more than a month since I started. I'm 174 aka 5'8.5 (inb4 manlet, anyway) and started at 64.25kg/142lbs and around 10-11% bf but I was eating like 1700cal a day bc I just couldn't bother to meal prep for the morning. I was legit starving in the mornings but I got used to it.

Anyway I'm now at around 2400cal a day (with 150g protein from eggs and chiken breast mostly) on a very clean diet. My weight is 68.5kg at around 14% assessed visually. I still look ok but I'm kinda freaking out because that's more than 4kg in a month (which is almost 9lbs) and I don't want to fuck my facial fat distribution. Keep in mind that I went to the gym a few years back but I wasn't serious so at this point I can be considered a beginner/enjoying newbie gains.

I don't inject and go to gym 2 times a week for 2h. My workouts are very optimized and I do a lot of stuff in them. One workout is shoulders/biceps, the other is chest/triceps and in each of them I do abs+neck+back for my posture issues. I'm seeing good results with neck, I gained 1cm in a month.

My main goal is simply to rack up newbie gains since I have an ok base and then simply maintain. The effort/reward balance gets negative for me after that.

My two questions are:

1. What should be my target weight before I go back to maintenance? What should be my lean target weight?
2. Is abs useless? I'd like to ditch it.

 

[shabby890]

Cut to about 13% would be good. It really depends how lean you want to look.

Abs isn't useless don't ditch it

 

[Matheus]

Cut to about 13% would be good. It really depends how lean you want to look.

Abs isn't useless don't ditch it

Alright. Initially I wanted to be between 68kg-70kg lean (11-12%bf) but idk if that is realistic. 12% bf I can easily maintain and looks great, I just want to gain a few kgs. I want especially shoulders and neck girth tbh

 

[Andremln]

Just train shoulders, back and upper chest, also neck.

16 sets per muscle group a week is alright, try Overhead Presses, T Bar rows and incline bench

 

[Matheus]

Just train shoulders, back and upper chest, also neck.

16 sets per muscle group a week is alright, try Overhead Presses, T Bar rows and incline bench

16 sets? I do 4 sets with 8 reps each per week per muscle. But if by muscle group you mean like the entire shoulders and not specific muscles like side delts then I'm probably at exactly it. There's only neck and abs I do twice a week bc it's the main areas I'm lacking.

 

[Matheus]

b

 

[Andremln]

16 sets? I do 4 sets with 8 reps each per week per muscle. But if by muscle group you mean like the entire shoulders and not specific muscles like side delts then I'm probably at exactly it. There's only neck and abs I do twice a week bc it's the main areas I'm lacking.

Yeah per the whole muscle group.

Training arms is a meme because you should do compund movements that involve them (rows and presses).

Also you should just train legs if they're sticks, if not don't because you want a V taper not an X taper

 

[Matheus]

Yeah per the whole muscle group.

Training arms is a meme because you should do compund movements that involve them (rows and presses).

Also you should just train legs if they're sticks, if not don't because you want a V taper not an X taper

Okay. Yeah my legs are fine.
As far as arms are concerned I just measured my Biceps. They're 32.5cm which is like 12.8inch but idk despite that they look okay? I have great arm insertions. I'd like to get them to 16 inches.

 

[sirmimbing]

Working out will benefit your looks in the long term but there will have to be times where you look worse on purpose in order to maximize long term gains. I would honestly recommend bulking up to around 20-23% body fat then cutting down and repeating it until you have a decent foundation of muscle. I don't think there's a point in staying at sub 15% body fat if you're trying to build muscle. Obviously 10-12% is ideal for looks but you should have periods of time where you get lean to show off and periods of time where you look worse for the gains. So just bulk until u get fluffy then cut

 

[Andremln]

Working out will benefit your looks in the long term but there will have to be times where you look worse on purpose in order to maximize long term gains. I would honestly recommend bulking up to around 20-23% body fat then cutting down and repeating it until you have a decent foundation of muscle. I don't think there's a point in staying at sub 15% body fat if you're trying to build muscle. Obviously 10-12% is ideal for looks but you should have periods of time where you get lean to show off and periods of time where you look worse for the gains. So just bulk until u get fluffy then cut

Real, jfl ive never been under 23 bodyfat in my life. Im honestly high mtn and i usually slay ltb and mtb so when i lean down to 13 bodyfat to show off i think i will try to go for some stacylite or something. I will have to clothesmaxx too idk

 

[Matheus]

Working out will benefit your looks in the long term but there will have to be times where you look worse on purpose in order to maximize long term gains. I would honestly recommend bulking up to around 20-23% body fat then cutting down and repeating it until you have a decent foundation of muscle. I don't think there's a point in staying at sub 15% body fat if you're trying to build muscle. Obviously 10-12% is ideal for looks but you should have periods of time where you get lean to show off and periods of time where you look worse for the gains. So just bulk until u get fluffy then cut

I agree. Though 20-23% seems like a lot especially for me. I've never been at more than 16-17% and I legit felt awful when I was.

 

[sirmimbing]

Real, jfl ive never been under 23 bodyfat in my life. Im honestly high mtn and i usually slay ltb and mtb so when i lean down to 13 bodyfat to show off i think i will try to go for some stacylite or something. I will have to clothesmaxx too idk

Yeah most people arent all that lean and they can do fine anyways. Low bf is for sure ideal but if you want muscle you gotta sacrifice

 

[sirmimbing]

I agree. Though 20-23% seems like a lot especially for me. I've never been at more than 16-17% and I legit felt awful when I was.

Felt awful how? I think the reason people feel awful at 15+ when they were previously leaner is because they stop doing as much cardio and they eat worse. If you eat mostly clean food, keep active, sleep well etc I don't see why you'd feel bad at 20%

 

[Matheus]

Felt awful how? I think the reason people feel awful at 15+ when they were previously leaner is because they stop doing as much cardio and they eat worse. If you eat mostly clean food, keep active, sleep well etc I don't see why you'd feel bad at 20%

It was during a 3 month internship and the workplace canteen you could technically get as much side dishes as you wanted. I was a massive grifter and ate maybe 2000cal meals no joke, on top of breakfast + dinner. It was relatively clean and I regularly did sports but it was only for my back issues, I did not lift that much.
The issue is that I'm used to being very athletic and agile and I felt fat tbh.

 

[sirmimbing]

It was during a 3 month internship and the workplace canteen you could technically get as much side dishes as you wanted. I was a massive grifter and ate maybe 2000cal meals no joke, on top of breakfast + dinner. It was relatively clean and I regularly did sports but it was only for my back issues, I did not lift that much.
The issue is that I'm used to being very athletic and agile and I felt fat tbh.

I think if you do a conservative bulk with around 300 calories of a surplus consisting of mostly clean foods combined with continued high activity levels you'll feel fine. Try it. Maybe you stop at 18% or something then but some excess food should just feel like its fueling your gym performance

 

[Matheus]

I think if you do a conservative bulk with around 300 calories of a surplus consisting of mostly clean foods combined with continued high activity levels you'll feel fine. Try it. Maybe you stop at 18% or something then but some excess food should just feel like its fueling your gym performance

Okay I'll do that. My weight scale also does body fat I checked this morning. 68.6kg at 12.9% bf. Pretty good base tbh. I'll go to 18 like you said, maintain for a while and then cut

 

[sirmimbing]

Okay I'll do that. My weight scale also does body fat I checked this morning. 68.6kg at 12.9% bf. Pretty good base tbh. I'll go to 18 like you said, maintain for a while and then cut

Sounds good man good luck