Testosterone is more feminizing than even estrogen itself (scientific proof inside)

[Deleted member 20704]

What many niggas here don't get is they ascribe "masc" or "fem" to things they think, which have no scientific basis on mind whatsoever.

Here are STUDIES showing that the testosterone molecule in the body actually acts mostly like estrogen -- and that explains how it causes water weight, etc. For niggas > 90 IQ parading a fucking hormone that PROVABLY can be just as bad if not worse than estrogen, keep reading.

Unsaturation = Estrogenic, Saturation = Androgenic

"all unsaturated steroids are estrogenic and similar to estrone."

"This includes androstenedione, testosterone, and some other testosterone derivative"

"...It is now recognized that substances of a more of less similar chemical nature to oestrone may have some degree of oestrogenic power even if their primary biological activity if of quite a different nature."

"Oh yeah, anything unsaturated makes the cell more hydrophilic and less lipophilic. So, it starts to take up water."

EXPLANATION: More muscular people have more unsaturated cell tissues, AKA they take up/hold more water (like big sponges) and this is ESTROGENIC.

The massive majority of "anabolic" hormones are ESTROGEN-LIKE and ESTROGEN-PROMOTING UNSATURATED COMPOUNDS that promote water/swelling. The only steroids that promote dryness like DHT are the OPPOSITE of the ANABOLIC ones -- they make you SMALLER because they remove excess water. Excess water shuttled to muscles = UNSATURATED. Less water held in muscle = SATURATION which is MORE ANDROGENIC.

BONUS: Testosterone also INCREASES SEROTONIN which is BAD.


It's not even AROMATIZATION but simply testosterone itself is estrogenic in its own right, meaning even with AIs testosterone's unsaturated effects remain. The 'war on testosterone' is BS -- Jews just don't want you injecting it because it makes you non-compliant.

Enjoy injecting yourselves with high doses of an UNSATURATED hormone that biologically similar to PUFA/estrogen, increases cellular "wetness" & causes aging by disrupting the mitochondria & promoting a cell environment that's HEAVILY similar to one having high estrogen even without estrone needed at all. Most "masc" features are the result of estrogen/testosterone, not just test because both promote cellular expansion/cancer. More test + more estrogen go hand-in-hand to create a disorganized, excessive-celled individual AKA bad!

Masculine traits are NOT excess cellular replication & cancer, but are DRYNESS aka looking dry, lean, tight, light build, etc. The more "wet" you look ('full' or 'puffy' looking) the more estrogenic it is because that's water excess shuttled to muscle cells, AKA estrogenic.

 

[Orc]

meanwhile men with no estrogen.

 

[Moggable]

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meanwhile men with no estrogen.

Could also be due to having no to extremely low T aswell

 

[Deleted member 20704]

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meanwhile men with no estrogen.

Yeah but you can't call estrogen entirely good either as it's implicated in cancer, tumors, etc. just like testosterone in high doses too.

Look at how many heavy-roiding dudes are more likely to have heart/organ problems, cancer, early deaths, etc. Both test & estrogen are bad.

The only good thing is maximize testosterone to the point where it's optimal, but do not go beyond that + keep estrogen in low range.

Also, your body screams estrogenic anyways since you have too much water -- you got a wet build, not a dry muscular look like Africans.

You are quite literally only biased for estrogen because you know damn well you'd be much smaller if it wasn't for the excess water your muscles are holding = the result of testosterone and/or estrogen. If you weren't a bodybuilding autist you'd probably understand the downsides though.

 

[Deleted member 20704]

Then again posting this here is a waste of time since you got too many bootlickers for "muh manly hormones" and shit.

Meanwhile the hormone estrogen is probably what contributes to a strong bone structure since it causes cells to expand/swell/etc. the most. While your "muh manly testosterone" is probably making you puffy, bloated and looking like a water balloon woman JFL retards ffs.

Keep pinning and causes embolisms and using nasty, PUFA-ridden esters in muh enanthate or whatever while you slowly poison yourselves with excess, unneeded estrogenic-like chemicals just as testosterone is much like estrogen (test has virtually all the same effects estrogen does).

 

[Orc]

.

Could also be due to having no to extremely low T aswell

those look even more fucked up.

Also, your body screams estrogenic anyways since you have too much water -- you got a wet build, not a dry muscular look like Africans.

psl autist struggles to comprehend the effect of tanning on skin.

 

[HOLYFUARK]

What is this shit i just read

 

[Deleted member 20704]

psl autist struggles to comprehend the effect of tanning on skin.

Nah, I've seen other pics of you and it's clear as day you've got that watery/glycogen/water-logged cell look going for you, which is shitty. Like many you've probably either used estrogenic compounds like T, or have strained yourself from autistic workouts & promoted this same cell environment through stress on the body/fish oil/whatever other unsaturated compounds you take/promote for your own garbage body. But it's your body bro, I can't do anythign for you, just letting you know when you get that cancer diagnosis in like 5-10 years max at your rate.

What is this shit i just read

Don't lie, you didn't read nor comprehend anything written, keep coping moron.

 

[HOLYFUARK]

The only good thing is maximize testosterone to the point where it's optimal, but do not go beyond that + keep estrogen in low range.

Also, your body screams estrogenic anyways since you have too much water -- you got a wet build, not a dry muscular look like Africans.

First you say it acts as estrogen , then you tell us to maximize it?
Africans have the highest testosterone on average

 

[Agendum]

I remember the face bloat I got when I started taking creatine.

 

[Zer0/∞]

 

[Orc]

Nah, I've seen other pics of you and it's clear as day you've got that watery/glycogen/water-logged cell look going for you, which is shitty.

the other pictures where I am still white as opposed to black? why do you think bodybuilders pose with heavy tans.

people with african descent have the highest estrogen levels of just about any group of people.

Serum estrogen, but not testosterone, levels differ between black and white men in a nationally representative sample of Americans - PubMed

Contrary to the postulated racial difference, testosterone concentrations did not differ notably between black and white men. However, blacks had higher estradiol levels. Mexican-Americans had higher testosterone than whites but similar estradiol and SHBG concentrations. Given these findings, it...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Deleted member 20704]

Normie BS, estrogen is actually FAR more masculine than testosterone, in by way of it potentially making a masculine look via bone growth. Now other than that it's certainly shit but for muh copers on here estrogen is often masculinizing, because look at T/what T does.

 

[JawGuyFatFaceGuy]

View attachment 2100350View attachment 2100351


meanwhile men with no estrogen.

Crazy how important hormones are

 

[Deleted member 20704]

What is this shit i just read

First you say it acts as estrogen , then you tell us to maximize it?
Africans have the highest testosterone on average

Everything in context, retard. There is no such thing as a binary, finite to the fine details hormone, they all are in everyone & act differently depending on context, genetics, etc. But evidence enough T in normal doses/range is better than E in higher ranges, but it's circumstantial.

Everything's got its good and bads, nothing is perfect, you can't ascribe a black and white view on hormones between sexes, it's not that simple

 

[SoundnVision]

I always say on here I felt shit when I injected test. Less libido and felt less alive.Puffy looking chest and shoulders and less lean face.
I looked best on masteron

 

[Deleted member 20704]

the other pictures where I am still white as opposed to black? why do you think bodybuilders pose with heavy tans.

people with african descent have the highest estrogen levels of just about any group of people.

Serum estrogen, but not testosterone, levels differ between black and white men in a nationally representative sample of Americans - PubMed

Contrary to the postulated racial difference, testosterone concentrations did not differ notably between black and white men. However, blacks had higher estradiol levels. Mexican-Americans had higher testosterone than whites but similar estradiol and SHBG concentrations. Given these findings, it...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yeah, but not on purpose. There's a difference between being a stressed African from poor life circumstances vs. some autistic guy straining his body out in his basement with weights by choice. I'd say in the right light blacks are more androgenic, but blood levels don't tell all anyways.

Estorgen can be bound to tissue and disrupt cellular mitochondria/etc. so you can't go by blood tests ALONE to determine much, but I figured you're too dumb to understand that it doesn't all matter by blood, blood changes and hormones fluctuate, so it's very limited results.

 

[SubhumanCurrycel]

View attachment 2100350View attachment 2100351


meanwhile men with no estrogen.

IIRC this dude is 6’7 and had unfused plates at 27

 

[Orc]

Africans have the highest testosterone on average

they don't, it's about the same as caucasian people.

it's southern americans that have the highest levels, but ironically it doesn't show.

 

[Deleted member 20704]

I always say on here I felt shit when I injected test. Less libido and felt less alive.Puffy looking chest and shoulders and less lean face.
I looked best on masteron

True, for any who want to know what testosterone feels like, just watch someone go on a bipolar episode, it's very much like being on high dose test. I view been reading RayPEATForum and I've severely changed the way I view testosterone, it's not some "magic elixir" many think sadly.

Test and estrogen are the flora and fauna, two sides of the same coin, it's why some 90 lb. bipolar bitch and a guy on 1 gram of testosterone act very similarly, the bipolar bitch has super high estrogen but the guy roiding on high gear has the same moodiness/mentality with testosterone.

And if you read the study I showed (many moron copers here just skimmed thru I guarantee) it shows testosterone INCREASES SEROTONIN which is implicated in aggressiveness, anger, moodiness, psychosis, etc. So high dose test really is a slow burn to death in a spiral of estrogenic-like activity anyways. This is why morons need to take things in context, not follow ancient bodybuilding "wisdom" from retards on a MesoRX forum who circle jerk over what their need cycle is going to like lunatic druggies with no aim or purpose.

Nothing that increases serotonin over time will do you good in the long run.

 

[Orc]

IIRC this dude is 6’7 and had unfused plates at 27

the skeleton I posted belongs to a 81 year old with unfused plates.

Occupational markers and pathology of the castrato singer Gaspare Pacchierotti (1740–1821) - Scientific Reports

Following the birth of modern opera in Italy in 1600, the demand for soprano voices grew up and the prepuberal castration was carried out to preserve the young male voice into adult life. Among the castrati, Gaspare Pacchierotti was probably one of the most famous. The remains of Pacchierotti...

www.nature.com

Even if all these skeletal markers confirmed the advanced age at death of Pacchierotti (81 years old), the epiphyseal lines on the iliac crests were visible (Fig. 3). These lines usually are fused at 23 years old16 and no more traces can be found in 90–100% of over 35 years old males17,18.

 

[HOLYFUARK]

they don't, it's about the same as caucasian people.

it's southern americans that have the highest levels, but ironically it doesn't show.

WHat you posted is 1 study.
This is a meta analysis and blacks do indeed have higher T on average.

Racial variation in sex steroid hormone concentration in black and white men: a meta-analysis - PubMed

Sex steroid hormones are associated with chronic diseases and mortality with risk associations that differ between racial and ethnic groups. However, it is currently unclear whether sex steroid hormone levels differ between black and white men. The aim of this study was to assess racial...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Deleted member 22058]

wha u got 2 say ab prenatal T

 

[SubhumanCurrycel]

the skeleton I posted belongs to a 81 year old with unfused plates.

Occupational markers and pathology of the castrato singer Gaspare Pacchierotti (1740–1821) - Scientific Reports

Following the birth of modern opera in Italy in 1600, the demand for soprano voices grew up and the prepuberal castration was carried out to preserve the young male voice into adult life. Among the castrati, Gaspare Pacchierotti was probably one of the most famous. The remains of Pacchierotti...

www.nature.com

The duality of nuking estrogen as a teen, unfused plates however it is noted in men with aromatase deficiency get eunuchoid proportions and even those treated for height may be at risk for spinal deformities. I guess the trick is just not to overdo it and not use for years on end

 

[Deleted member 20704]

I always said it and hope many here are smarter, but never take serious life/health advice from someone dumb enough to take a compound that acts EXACTLY like the same compound they spend extra money on to try and eliminate (test with AIs when test is estrogenic itself).

 

[Orc]

WHat you posted is 1 study.
This is a meta analysis and blacks do indeed have higher T on average.

Racial variation in sex steroid hormone concentration in black and white men: a meta-analysis - PubMed

Sex steroid hormones are associated with chronic diseases and mortality with risk associations that differ between racial and ethnic groups. However, it is currently unclear whether sex steroid hormone levels differ between black and white men. The aim of this study was to assess racial...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

the study I posted measured totals, which according to yours, are also the same.

Total testosterone (WMD = 0.10 ng/mL, 95% CI -0.02, 0.22), estradiol (WMD = 0.67 pg/mL, 95% CI -0.04, 1.38) and SHBG (WMD = -0.45 nmol/L, 95% CI -1.75, 0.85) concentrations did not differ comparing blacks with whites.

modestly but significantly 2.5 to 4.9% higher free testosterone

the difference is in free, and while statistically significant, in reality it's nothing, because testosterone concentrations aren't even related to your ability to gain size, rather the androgen receptor sensitivity and concentration in your muscles is.

 

[Deleted member 20704]

wha u got 2 say ab prenatal T

 

[Rt-Rust1]

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meanwhile men with no estrogen.

What condition is this?
I looked this image up in google and it says it is a man with excess estrogen

 

[Orc]

What condition is this?
I looked this image up in google and it says it is a man with excess estrogen

Aromatase deficiency - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

he can't convert estrogen.

 

[HOLYFUARK]

OP i think your thread is absolute bullshit but i will still research this

Enjoy injecting yourselves with high doses of an UNSATURATED hormone that biologically similar to PUFA/estrogen, increases cellular "wetness" & causes aging by disrupting the mitochondria & promoting a cell environment that's HEAVILY similar to one having high estrogen even without estrone needed at all

Furthermore, testosterone was shown to improve and preserve mitochondrial functions and increase the expression of neuroglobin, demonstrating a potential role in modulating ROS production and inducing the expression of neuroprotective proteins.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4921852/#:~:text=Furthermore%2C%20testosterone%20was%20shown%20to,the%20expression%20of%20neuroprotective%20proteins.

Meanwhile the hormone estrogen is probably what contributes to a strong bone structure since it causes cells to expand/swell/etc.

Based on FEA of QCT data, testosterone treatment also increased estimated bone strength. Testosterone treatment increased estimated strength of spine trabecular bone by 10.8% (95% CI, 7.4% to 14.3%), compared with 2.4% (95% CI, −1.0% to 5.7%) in placebo-treated men (Figure 3B and Table 2)

 

[Deleted member 20704]

I always say on here I felt shit when I injected test. Less libido and felt less alive.Puffy looking chest and shoulders and less lean face.
I looked best on masteron

Exactly why I only take DHT from now on, it doesn't make you bigger really on its own but makes you stronger & way more stoic, at no cost toward leanness/maximizes looking dry and lean while testosterone is kinda like estrogen, fills you out/bulks you/makes you look "puffed,"

Plus DHT reduces serotonin ,chills you out, STILL can give you strength gains comparable to a guy on test, but keeps you many times healthier.

 

[HOLYFUARK]

RayPEATForum

If you really did you would know haidut and ray himself are fans of testosterone but hate estrogen, haidut himself promotes the use of aromasin

 

[SoundnVision]

Exactly why I only take DHT from now on, it doesn't make you bigger really on its own but makes you stronger & way more stoic, at no cost toward leanness/maximizes looking dry and lean while testosterone is kinda like estrogen, fills you out/bulks you/makes you look "puffed,"

Plus DHT reduces serotonin ,chills you out, STILL can give you strength gains comparable to a guy on test, but keeps you many times healthier.

Masteron low dose (180mg)was fantastic I looked even more ripped my face looked great and it got rid of the gyno that test gave me, awesome compound.
From now on il only ever do low dose masteron nothing else.

 

[Deleted member 20704]

OP i think your thread is absolute bullshit but i will still research this



Furthermore, testosterone was shown to improve and preserve mitochondrial functions and increase the expression of neuroglobin, demonstrating a potential role in modulating ROS production and inducing the expression of neuroprotective proteins.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4921852/#:~:text=Furthermore%2C%20testosterone%20was%20shown%20to,the%20expression%20of%20neuroprotective%20proteins.

Based on FEA of QCT data, testosterone treatment also increased estimated bone strength. Testosterone treatment increased estimated strength of spine trabecular bone by 10.8% (95% CI, 7.4% to 14.3%), compared with 2.4% (95% CI, −1.0% to 5.7%) in placebo-treated men (Figure 3B and Table 2)

Test can be helpful but also hurtful, which is why I said IN CONTEXT. Some bit can be great, take too much and it will cause heart attacks, etc. Unfortunately every retard here & his brother believes you have to take half a fucking gram of testosterone a week for it to be "beneficial."

And test can improve BONE STRENGTH but estrogen plays a role in trabecular size, angle, structure, flaring, like ramus, bunions, zygos, etc. Strength is meaningless for looks, we all know it's VOLUME of bone/perceived VOLUME that determines looks, not muh bone strength/density.

 

[Deleted member 20704]

If you really did you would know haidut and ray himself are fans of testosterone but hate estrogen, haidut himself promotes the use of aromasin

They like testosterone/find it useful in PHYSIOLOGICAL DOSES, not in blasting retard bodybuilder doses. Ray Peat never advocated for high doses of testosterone in the treatment or improvement in anyone's health, he mostly would push for thyroid, saturated androgens like DHT, etc.

But yeah they are against estrogen no shit, it makes you "feel good" a while until you come to a screeching when you go overboard/sick.

 

[Rt-Rust1]

What kind of DHT do you use

 

[HOLYFUARK]

Test can be helpful but also hurtful, which is why I said IN CONTEXT. Some bit can be great, take too much and it will cause heart attacks, etc. Unfortunately every retard here & his brother believes you have to take half a fucking gram of testosterone a week for it to be "beneficial."

And test can improve BONE STRENGTH but estrogen plays a role in trabecular size, angle, structure, flaring, like ramus, bunions, zygos, etc. Strength is meaningless for looks, we all know it's VOLUME of bone/perceived VOLUME that determines looks, not muh bone strength/density.

I think we live in a time in which T production is reduced , the problem really is that we dont make enough T

useful in PHYSIOLOGICAL DOSES

I agree im also against steroid usage, however some people have been handed the worst cards, like loox if you know the user, he had the craziest ascension of the century thanks to T and hgh. Clearly T masculinizes you, i do not like your premise that T is the same as estrogen .

 

[Deleted member 22354]

Good thread OP, hormones in general should never be looked at individually, but the relationship between them is crucial. Ratios such as estradiol to test say much more than test alone. To my knowledge, the ideal ratio is 4:1 (t to e), and any deviation from this is counterproductive.

The goal must be to achieve ideal states naturally, anyone who takes anything at all is fucking themselves hormonally and therefore health wise in the long run.

 

[HOLYFUARK]

eatment or improvement in anyone's health, he mostly would push for thyroid, saturated androgens like DHT, etc

what about creatine, it s an osmolyte that increases dht and possibly prevents cancer, however it also promotes water retention my a large margin

Lastly if dht is so important i have to ask how come blacks have the highest T and lowest Dht of all races? Yet they re still lean and dry like you say .

 

[Deleted member 20704]

what about creatine, it s an osmolyte that increases dht and possibly prevents cancer, however it also promotes water retention my a large margin

Lastly if dht is so important i have to ask how come blacks have the highest T and lowest Dht of all races? Yet they re still lean and dry like you say .

DHT and creatine are not structurally similar at all.

I have taken DHT and it never bloat while creatine does so creatine is not a chemical equivalent to DHT really even if it might inc4ease it, it must be some other reason or mechanism.

I don't know why blacks can be dry and supposedly low DHT. That makes no sense on the face of it but I guess one hormone alone may not explain it, just give an idea to work with.

 

[´´´´´´´´]

the real benefit of testosterone has nothing to do with muscles, voice, or even bones. not gonna elab much but all im saying is if u aint running trt after 25 ur wasting ur life

 

[HOLYFUARK]

DHT and creatine are not structurally similar at all.

I have taken DHT and it never bloat while creatine does so creatine is not a chemical equivalent to DHT really even if it might inc4ease it, it must be some other reason or mechanism.

I don't know why blacks can be dry and supposedly low DHT. That makes no sense on the face of it but I guess one hormone alone may not explain it, just give an idea to work with.

I Didnt say it s similar to dht, but in studies it shows a 50% increase of dht in people who take creatine .

I read a thread on ray peat forum about how increased cellular and intracellular water could cause cancer . The solution seems to be either dehydration or osmolytes .

Water Structure, Osmolytes And Cancer

Hello, Please find below the summary of a theory about cancer which I find quite interesting :blush: Unmasking the secrets of cancer: water type A non-structured promotes carcinogenesis and water type B structured restores the physiology and cellular bioenergetics transforming cancerous cells...

raypeatforum.com

 

[HOLYFUARK]

the real benefit of testosterone has nothing to do with muscles, voice, or even bones. not gonna elab much but all im saying is if u aint running trt after 25 ur wasting ur life

Are you talking about energy and libido

 

[HOLYFUARK]

BONUS: Testosterone also INCREASES SEROTONIN which is BAD.

I offer this counter studies, one done on human men, not female mice (testosterone acts different in males and females, females should be low in T )

Testosterone levels in healthy men correlate negatively with serotonin 4 receptor binding - PubMed

The serotonergic system integrates sex steroid information and plays a central role in mood and stress regulation, cognition, appetite and sleep. This interplay may be critical for likelihood of developing depressive episodes, at least in a subgroup of sensitive individuals. The serotonin 4...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

We found that testosterone, but not estradiol, correlated negatively with global 5-HT4R levels (p=0.02) suggesting that men with high levels of testosterone have higher cerebral serotonergic tonus.

Tonus = the constant low-level activity of a body tissue, especially muscle tone.

Effects of testosterone replacement on serotonin levels in the prostate and plasma in a murine model of hypogonadism - Scientific Reports

Benign prostate hyperplasia is a dysfunctional disease with an elevated prevalence. Despite the accepted impact of aging and testosterone (TES) in its pathophysiology, its aetiology remains unknown. Recent studies described that serotonin (5-HT) inhibits benign prostate growth through the...

www.nature.com

5-HT plasmatic concentration significantly increased after castration and then normalized after TES administration.

 

[Deleted member 22058]

it provides masculinization

 

[zap]

>The more "wet" you look ('full' or 'puffy' looking) the more estrogenic it is because that's water excess shuttled to muscle cells

Not really. why would it work like that? Creatine does the same thing where extra water is held in the muscle cells. But it doesn't make you look puffy and soft since it's intracellular water not water underneath the skin

 

[Traxanas]

This is generally cope.

Water retention is a multifactorial issue. Some don't get those side effects you're describing from roids, instead some are completely "dry".

There's different types of steroids, with different reactions for every each individual.

Primobolan for me, zero water retention. 250mg of a Test base? Zero puffiness. Literally nothing changed when it came to retention, if anything I look more dry and veiny.

 

[Traxanas]

Normie BS, estrogen is actually FAR more masculine than testosterone, in by way of it potentially making a masculine look via bone growth. Now other than that it's certainly shit but for muh copers on here estrogen is often masculinizing, because look at T/what T does.

Also this is just wrong. I actually couldn't tell if you were trolling, gaslighting, misinformed, or just retarded.

Estrogen is important as it aids bone growth, it is mainly protective. But too much of it will stunt one's long-term growth potential.

Testosterone converts to DHT. DHT is an androgen that stimulates bone through osteoblasts. Does not stunt growth at all, unlike estrogen.

Speaking of "masculine" bone growth, estrogen limits ramus growth.

Effects of estrogen deficiency during puberty on maxillary and mandibular growth and associated gene expression – an μCT study on rats - Head & Face Medicine

Background Estrogen is a well-known and important hormone involved in skeletal homeostasis, which regulates genes involved in bone biology. Some studies support that estrogen is important for craniofacial growth and development. Therefore this in vivo animal study aimed to investigate, whether...

head-face-med.biomedcentral.com

Mice deficient of estrogen had more mandibular growth

Estrogen via estrogen receptor beta partially inhibits mandibular condylar cartilage growth - PubMed

Estrogen via ER beta inhibits proliferation and ER alpha expression while estrogen independent of ER beta induces Col2 and Sost expression.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Estrogen via estrogen receptor beta partially inhibits mandibular condylar cartilage growth​

Europe PMC

Europe PMC is an archive of life sciences journal literature.

europepmc.org

​

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S001216062200197X

​

The ramus is a good indicator of sexual dimorphism. Estrogen limits it. Therefore estrogen negatively impacts masculine bone growth in one's face. If you disagree, kindly kill yourself.

 

[Deleted member 15302]

Also this is just wrong. I actually couldn't tell if you were trolling, gaslighting, misinformed, or just retarded.

Estrogen is important as it aids bone growth, it is mainly protective. But too much of it will stunt one's long-term growth potential.

Testosterone converts to DHT. DHT is an androgen that stimulates bone through osteoblasts. Does not stunt growth at all, unlike estrogen.

Speaking of "masculine" bone growth, estrogen limits ramus growth.

Effects of estrogen deficiency during puberty on maxillary and mandibular growth and associated gene expression – an μCT study on rats - Head & Face Medicine

Background Estrogen is a well-known and important hormone involved in skeletal homeostasis, which regulates genes involved in bone biology. Some studies support that estrogen is important for craniofacial growth and development. Therefore this in vivo animal study aimed to investigate, whether...

head-face-med.biomedcentral.com

Mice deficient of estrogen had more mandibular growth

Estrogen via estrogen receptor beta partially inhibits mandibular condylar cartilage growth - PubMed

Estrogen via ER beta inhibits proliferation and ER alpha expression while estrogen independent of ER beta induces Col2 and Sost expression.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Estrogen via estrogen receptor beta partially inhibits mandibular condylar cartilage growth​

Europe PMC

Europe PMC is an archive of life sciences journal literature.

europepmc.org

​

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S001216062200197X

​

The ramus is a good indicator of sexual dimorphism. Estrogen limits it. Therefore estrogen negatively impacts masculine bone growth in one's face. If you disagree, kindly kill yourself.

100% correct however op still has a point

all the trials i’ve seen point to the fact that dht masculinizes you while testosterone itself does not do much and does potentially have some of the same effects as estrogen. in terms of muscle growth test > dht, but what looksmaxxers tend to look for: masculine bone structure, masculine mental state, and to be overall “genetically masculine”, dht > test.

what about creatine, it s an osmolyte that increases dht and possibly prevents cancer, however it also promotes water retention my a large margin

Lastly if dht is so important i have to ask how come blacks have the highest T and lowest Dht of all races? Yet they re still lean and dry like you say .

it’s possible to have a low amount of a hormone and have a high reactivity to it. and i’d say they have the driest looks not because of their hormones but instead because of natural selection. they evolved in a place where storing a lot of energy is not useful as opposed to whites who may store energy for scarce times (winter).

this threads another dht = life pill. if only it didn’t make u bald the whole forum would be on dht.

 

[Lucid]

What many niggas here don't get is they ascribe "masc" or "fem" to things they think, which have no scientific basis on mind whatsoever.

Here are STUDIES showing that the testosterone molecule in the body actually acts mostly like estrogen -- and that explains how it causes water weight, etc. For niggas > 90 IQ parading a fucking hormone that PROVABLY can be just as bad if not worse than estrogen, keep reading.

Unsaturation = Estrogenic, Saturation = Androgenic









EXPLANATION: More muscular people have more unsaturated cell tissues, AKA they take up/hold more water (like big sponges) and this is ESTROGENIC.

The massive majority of "anabolic" hormones are ESTROGEN-LIKE and ESTROGEN-PROMOTING UNSATURATED COMPOUNDS that promote water/swelling. The only steroids that promote dryness like DHT are the OPPOSITE of the ANABOLIC ones -- they make you SMALLER because they remove excess water. Excess water shuttled to muscles = UNSATURATED. Less water held in muscle = SATURATION which is MORE ANDROGENIC.

BONUS: Testosterone also INCREASES SEROTONIN which is BAD.


It's not even AROMATIZATION but simply testosterone itself is estrogenic in its own right, meaning even with AIs testosterone's unsaturated effects remain. The 'war on testosterone' is BS -- Jews just don't want you injecting it because it makes you non-compliant.

Enjoy injecting yourselves with high doses of an UNSATURATED hormone that biologically similar to PUFA/estrogen, increases cellular "wetness" & causes aging by disrupting the mitochondria & promoting a cell environment that's HEAVILY similar to one having high estrogen even without estrone needed at all. Most "masc" features are the result of estrogen/testosterone, not just test because both promote cellular expansion/cancer. More test + more estrogen go hand-in-hand to create a disorganized, excessive-celled individual AKA bad!

Masculine traits are NOT excess cellular replication & cancer, but are DRYNESS aka looking dry, lean, tight, light build, etc. The more "wet" you look ('full' or 'puffy' looking) the more estrogenic it is because that's water excess shuttled to muscle cells, AKA estrogenic.

So just have good genes or work hard to lift.
Idk how AI is bad tho, when it does help for gyno niggas like myself (mild gyno)