How did the lips changed and gonion became wider after bimax?

[Tai Lung]

Lips - not downward anymore and became normal
Gonions (jaw angles) - became more wider
Cheekbones - became more visible


What caused it?

Surgery done by Raffaini

 

[Deleted member 51465]

Fillers, are you dumb?

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

View attachment 2813335

Lips - not downward anymore and became normal
Gonions (jaw angles) - became more wider
Cheekbones - became more visible


What caused it?

Surgery done by Raffaini

Stretching out soft tissue i think.

 

[Tai Lung]

Stretching out soft tissue i think.

does this naturally happen during the surgery or surgeon needs to adjust them ?

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

does this naturally happen during the surgery or surgeon needs to adjust them ?

Downturned and narrow lips are often the result of poor bone structure which can’t hold the soft tissue. So he might got something for that too, maybe some implants.

As for the wider gonions, bimax can widen them to a certain extent.

 

[Tai Lung]

Downturned and narrow lips are often the result of poor bone structure which can’t hold the soft tissue. So he might got something for that too, maybe some implants.

As for the wider gonions, bimax can widen them to a certain extent.

he didnt get implants, this surgery was done by Raffaini, he doesnt do implants.

Here his comment on what he did:

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

he didnt get implants, this surgery was done by Raffaini, he doesnt do implants.

Here his comment on what he did:
View attachment 2813455

Where does raffaini operate?

 

[Tai Lung]

Where does raffaini operate?

Parma, Italy

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

Parma, Italy

I need bimax too, because of recessed jaws. I might get the surgery for free here in the Netherlands if I test positive on sleep apnea. But I’m concerned the surgeon is only focused on medical purposes and not aesthetics wise.

 

[Tai Lung]

I need bimax too, because of recessed jaws. I might get the surgery for free here in the Netherlands if I test positive on sleep apnea. But I’m concerned the surgeon is only focused on medical purposes and not aesthetics wise.

Im getting bimax aswell, but i have trouble finding the ortho willing to decompensate the teeth for the surgery, most of them are completely lost and dont even understand what is a jaw surgery, the ones who are got queues of 4 months. So adjusting the teeth gonna
be the hardest part in my case. Hopefully wont take longer than one year.

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

Im getting bimax aswell, but i have trouble finding the ortho willing to decompensate the teeth for the surgery, most of them are completely lost and dont even understand what is a jaw surgery, the ones who are got queues of 4 months. So adjusting the teeth gonna
be the hardest part in my case. Hopefully wont take longer than one year.

Hopefully i don’t have to do orthodontic stuff before my jaw surgery. Would take too much time. Getting the surgery alone would take a lot of time. Shit is brutal. All this pain and effort for a normal jaw, life is hell. But hopefully worth it at the end.

 

[Tai Lung]

Hopefully i don’t have to do orthodontic stuff before my jaw surgery. Would take too much time. Getting the surgery alone would take a lot of time. Shit is brutal. All this pain and effort for a normal jaw, life is hell. But hopefully worth it at the end.

it wont take much time if u getting surgery first, maybe like 5-6 months unless your surgeon has high queues.

But probably u gonna need to decompensate, i doubt bluepilled surgeon gonna do surgery first on u.

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

it wont take much time if u getting surgery first, maybe like 5-6 months unless your surgeon has high queues.

But probably u gonna need to decompensate, i doubt bluepilled surgeon gonna do surgery first on u.

Are you going to get your surgery done in your own country?

 

[Tai Lung]

Are you going to get your surgery done in your own country?

Not sure, depending on queue times, there is only one surgeon in my country so the queues are very high. But he is pretty good, seen the results also trained by Gunson.

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

Not sure, depending on queue times, there is only one surgeon in my country so the queues are very high. But he is pretty good, seen the results also trained by Gunson.

Alright good luck with your surgery procedure.

 

[Tai Lung]

bump

 

[Tai Lung]

@ccwarrior

 

[Memento Mori]

View attachment 2813335

Lips - not downward anymore and became normal
Gonions (jaw angles) - became more wider
Cheekbones - became more visible


What caused it?

Surgery done by Raffaini

It's typical for a well-executed bimax by a top-tier surgeon not to focus solely on maxillary and mandibular osteotomy with CCW rotation of the occlusion. It also includes support for the lips, enhancement of the paralateral nasal area, and a sharper definition of the mandibular edge. Additionally, it can incorporate an elongated genioplasty that extends posteriorly to the mandibular angles. At least, this is the form of Bimax + Genio you can find with Ramieri, known as the Beauty-full Chin. However, these questions should really be directed to @RealSurgerymax I can only offer a personal interpretation of what I've understood, having studied other things in life.

 

[NoFear]

Eye area looks worse

 

[longjohnmong]

another SFS

 

[depressionmaxxing]

I need bimax too, because of recessed jaws. I might get the surgery for free here in the Netherlands if I test positive on sleep apnea. But I’m concerned the surgeon is only focused on medical purposes and not aesthetics wise.

For sleep apnea you‘ll get 1cm advancement. There are aesthetical surgeons everywhere

 

[longjohnmong]

look at the difference between the starting point of the SFS on the left and severe downgrown Class II aka birdcel on the right. the end result of the guy on the left is going to have robust mandible, the guy on the right is still going to have shitty, weak downgrown mandible, just rotated and
elongated

but you assume that they have the same starting position and it's just the surgeon's skill and "experience" that gets the results

after:

Can you see why the one is going to look better than the other and it just isn't about the surgeon (considering it's the same surgeon)?

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

For sleep apnea you‘ll get 1cm advancement. There are aesthetical surgeons everywhere

1 cm is nothing….

 

[PrimoMaxxer]

It's typical for a well-executed bimax by a top-tier surgeon not to focus solely on maxillary and mandibular osteotomy with CCW rotation of the occlusion. It also includes support for the lips, enhancement of the paralateral nasal area, and a sharper definition of the mandibular edge. Additionally, it can incorporate an elongated genioplasty that extends posteriorly to the mandibular angles. At least, this is the form of Bimax + Genio you can find with Ramieri, known as the Beauty-full Chin. However, these questions should really be directed to @RealSurgerymax I can only offer a personal interpretation of what I've understood, having studied other things in life.

Ccw rotation widens lips? Just curious where did you hear this?

 

[PrimoMaxxer]

1 cm is nothing….

That's heaps, you have to be majorly recessedto get 1cm of bsso. Plus you can get genio on top

 

[depressionmaxxing]

1 cm is nothing….

1cm is allot, you probably just don‘t know anything about surgery

 

[Memento Mori]

Ccw rotation widens lips? Just curious where did you hear this?

I didn't say that. What I said is that a well-done bimax, in addition to the osteotomy of both jaws with a CCW rotation of the occlusion, involves a more holistic approach that brings a range of additional benefits, including, as I highlighted in my previous message, lip support.

widens lips

??? The notable change is that they no longer point downwards.

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

1cm is allot, you probably just don‘t know anything about surgery

Yeah you’re right. I thought you were saying 1mm lol.

But idk if they will move it 1cm. I have sleep apnea. My problem is: sfs with recession.

 

[depressionmaxxing]

Yeah you’re right. I thought you were saying 1mm lol.

But idk if they will move it 1cm. I have sleep apnea. My problem is: sfs with recession.

My surgeon decides whetever he wanna do functional surgery or aesthetical surgery. Functional being fixing sleep apnea by giving you more space to breath (advancing mandible), or just fixing malocclusion without changing the face too much.

When you meet him tell him you‘re very aethetics orientated, then secretely judge his skills by asking before and afters from his patients, if you‘re happy with them, go for it

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

My surgeon decides whetever he wanna do functional surgery or aesthetical surgery. Functional being fixing sleep apnea by giving you more space to breath (advancing mandible), or just fixing malocclusion without changing the face too much.

When you meet him tell him you‘re very aethetics orientated, then secretely judge his skills by asking before and afters from his patients, if you‘re happy with them, go for it

I’m getting tested for sleep apnea. If i test positive my insurance will cover the costs. But i don’t want the surgery for medical purposes only. I want aesthetics results. So yeah i will definitely tell him.

 

[its_over]

I’m getting tested for sleep apnea. If i test positive my insurance will cover the costs. But i don’t want the surgery for medical purposes only. I want aesthetics results. So yeah i will definitely tell him.

Go in Italy

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

Go in Italy

I live in the Netherlands. Can’t pay the surgery in Italy.

 

[its_over]

I live in the Netherlands. Can’t pay the surgery in Italy.

don’t you are the richest in Europe?

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

don’t you are the richest in Europe?

I’m broke asf.

Did you got surgeries in italy?

 

[its_over]

I’m broke asf.

Did you got surgeries in italy?

No I live here

 

[moreroidsmoredates]

No I live here

I heard pagoni is good

 

[its_over]

I heard pagoni is good

Raffaini/Pagnoni/Ramieri all of them are good

 

[mvp2v1]

look at the difference between the starting point of the SFS on the left and severe downgrown Class II aka birdcel on the right. the end result of the guy on the left is going to have robust mandible, the guy on the right is still going to have shitty, weak downgrown mandible, just rotated and
elongated

View attachment 2826178

but you assume that they have the same starting position and it's just the surgeon's skill and "experience" that gets the results

after:

View attachment 2826179

Can you see why the one is going to look better than the other and it just isn't about the surgeon (considering it's the same surgeon)?

Giga based high iq user. I wouldn’t waste my time though, there is a constant influx of low iq surgery cells that thinks money will solve all their problems.

Very good comparison pics btw worth analyzing. Just an initial impression I see lots of interesting things happening in the upper maxilla, orbitals, etc

 

[eagle_tren123]

What do you guys think about my trimax plan? I have sfs with class 2 skeletal and class 1 dental profile due to camouflage ortho in the page.

And my OP is not negative in the after in case anyone is wondering lol (although close to becoming flat at 2 degrees in the after).

 

[nobodyspecial369]

Downturned and narrow lips are often the result of poor bone structure which can’t hold the soft tissue.

i agree but do you mind elaborating on what exactly you mean by poor bone structure? I think it’s a matter of the chin not being long enough or tall enough, palate not being wide enough, upper lip/teeth being too far forward in front of lower lip/teeth

however this is mostly speculation from what i know, so i’d like to hear from you please

 

[nobodyspecial369]

also includes support for the lips, enhancement of the paralateral nasal area, and a sharper definition of the mandibular edge

what causes the increased support for the lips?

What is paralateral nasal area, looked it up couldn’t find something helpful

sharper definition of mandibular edge towards the chin or towards the back of the mandible?

 

[nobodyspecial369]

The notable change is that they no longer point downwards.

i’m very curious what causes downward lips and what exactly contributed to the fix of this issue in the OP?

would genio alone fix this?

 

[Memento Mori]

what causes the increased support for the lips?

Repositioning the jawbones can change the tension and support structures around the mouth area, leading to a more supported and potentially aesthetically pleasing lip position.

What is paralateral nasal area, looked it up couldn’t find something helpful

This term isn't commonly used in medical literature. In facial aesthetic procedures, improving this area could involve reshaping the structures near the nose to create a more harmonious and balanced facial appearance. This can include modifying the cheeks, filling in nasolabial folds, or lifting the mid-facial areas.

sharper definition of mandibular edge towards the chin or towards the back of the mandible?

Sharper definition of the mandibular edge can result from both anterior (towards the chin) and posterior (towards the back) modifications. Orthognathic surgery and genioplasty can reshape the jaw and chin, enhancing the jawline's contour and definition.

i’m very curious what causes downward lips and what exactly contributed to the fix of this issue in the OP?

would genio alone fix this?

Downward-facing lips can result from various causes, including the position of the jaws, the tension of soft tissues, and the facial muscle structure. In orthognathic surgery, correcting these lips can come from realigning the jaws and advancing the chin, which can change the tension and support of the soft tissues, leading to a more balanced and symmetrical appearance of the lips.

Genioplasty alone can help correct downward-facing lips if the issue is primarily related to the chin's position or shape.

 

[nobodyspecial369]

In orthognathic surgery, correcting these lips can come from realigning the jaws and advancing the chin,

is it from horizontal advancement of the chin or vertical? i think it may be both

see my theory here
Post in thread 'Is a sliding genio necessary with bimax + ccw?'
https://looksmax.org/threads/is-a-sliding-genio-necessary-with-bimax-ccw.973091/post-15150193

 

[Memento Mori]

is it from horizontal advancement of the chin or vertical? i think it may be both

see my theory here
Post in thread 'Is a sliding genio necessary with bimax + ccw?'
https://looksmax.org/threads/is-a-sliding-genio-necessary-with-bimax-ccw.973091/post-15150193

Yeah, the effect on the lips can result from both horizontal and vertical advancement of the chin. Horizontal advancement reduces tension on the muscles that pull the lips down, while vertical enhancement might stretch and thereby lessen the strength of the depressor muscles, leading to less downward-turning lips