Starting Test/Anadrol/Tren/DHB steroid cycle

[Deleted member 147]

Just received my roids today.

I had very minor gyno from Puberty, so one week before starting the cycle, I'm taking Letrozole (2.5mg/day), DNP (200mg/day), (12.5mg Aromasin), Cabergoline (0.5mg/2TW) and T3 (50mcg/day (I have a thyroid problem)).

I took my 1st Letrozole pill a couple hours ago, and my gyno is already maybe just slightly more than half it's initial size.

Also, since I'm burning fat by not eating, (My Ritalin suppresses my appetite it's an ADHD medication), and my estrogen is so low, all the super-soft fat is coming off my hips/lower stomach specifically because I don't have the feminine hormones to support it. So that's a plus.

Here is all my drugs atm:

My proposed cycle:

1-6: Anadrol (50-75mg/day)
1-16: Test 300 (100mg/MWF)
1-16: Tren E (150mg/MWF)
1-16: DHB (150mg/MWF)
1-16: T3 (37.5mg/day)
1-16: HCG (500ius/MWF)

(I have all the caber /Aromasin /Letrozole /nolvadex ect ect)

I may keep it at 16 weeks or cut it short it depends on how I feel.

My before pic:

And yes, I'm fully aware I'm an idiot. I have no business running anabolic steroids let alone a cycle like this. Staying natural is better unless you can make money from this, which I'm not (atm or for a couple years anyways). I'm not saying you should do steroids, this is extremely stupid for me to be doing. I know guys. But I'm volunteering as Guinea pig. Just let it be.

If this works, I win! If it doesn't, you can use me as a bad example to teenagers thinking about using steroids.

I'll be back every now and then to report my findings.

 

[Deleted member 483]

do you follow neoshred?

 

[JellyBelly]

based ngl

 

[Zeta ascended]

Letrozole (2.5mg/day), DNP (200mg/day), (12.5mg Aromasin), Cabergoline (0.5mg/2TW) and T3 (50mcg/day (I have a thyroid problem)).

I just lost some hair reading that

 

[heroinfather]

srs I hope u get ripped gl

 

[Deleted member 147]

do you follow neoshred?

Can't say I do bro. Why?

 

[Deleted member 483]

Can't say I do bro. Why?

hard to not come off racist but u reminded me of him as he has similar race/coloring/frame and hes open about roid use too

 

[Deleted member 147]

I just lost some hair reading that

None of these really make it hair fall out lol

hard to not come off racist but u reminded me of him as he has similar race/coloring/frame and hes open about roid use too

Hahaha I suppose we r similar

 

[Zeta ascended]

None of these really make it hair fall out lol

Aren't some of them DHT derivatives. It would probably make me go from Norwood 2 to 3. I really envy people who are not prone to hairloss.

 

[Deleted member 147]

Aren't some of them DHT derivatives. It would probably make me go from Norwood 2 to 3. I really envy people who are not prone to hairloss.

Mate... There isn't a single anabolics steroid named in that paragraph.

Letrozole and Aromasin are Aromatising Inhibitors.

DNP and T3 are Fat burners.

Cabergoline is a prolactin-inhibator

 

[NickGurr]

Mate... There isn't a single anabolics steroid named in that paragraph.

Letrozole and Aromasin are Aromatising Inhibitors.

DNP and T3 are Fat burners.

Cabergoline is a prolactin-inhibator

how much u pay for it wagie?

 

[Rimcel]

Mate... There isn't a single anabolics steroid named in that paragraph.

Letrozole and Aromasin are Aromatising Inhibitors.

DNP and T3 are Fat burners.

Cabergoline is a prolactin-inhibator

If you are predisposed to balding you will lose hair just from test e alone

Also aromatising inhibitors accelerate balding as well

 

[NickGurr]

If you are predisposed to balding you will lose hair just from test e alone

Also aromatising inhibitors accelerate balding as well

Low T

 

[Rimcel]

Low T

I was before I started injecting

 

[belnar93]

Theres No gym for your face

 

[Extra Chromosome]

I fucking love this thread.

Injecting = life.

Have you tried letro before? Even pro bodybuilders can get hell from 0.5mg eod. And you are both taking letro with aromasin. The nuke of E will be extreme, very extreme. killing aromatase + preventing the ones left from binding basically.

I recommend working up to the dosage tbh ngl, no need to rush the gynocide.

Mate... There isn't a single anabolics steroid named in that paragraph.

Letrozole and Aromasin are Aromatising Inhibitors.

DNP and T3 are Fat burners.

Cabergoline is a prolactin-inhibator

What about the aromasin metabolite that is 40x as strong as DHT?

Also, from my reading on psychiatry.

Nuking E + taking tren + inhibition of prolactin + taking a stimulant is a recipe for mood chaos.

I am religiously against DNP.

I appreciate and support the guinea pig mentality. I am doing it as well (blasting GHK-cu soon), but it should be done with more caution.
Just my 2 cents.

I will support you if you still want to go ahead with it.

Also, @jefferson gtfih.

 

[NickGurr]

I was before I started injecting

High T

Theres No gym for your face

With test you can more easilt build your masseters, if youre lucky you can also morph and become a bit more masculine and grow a beard

But ok low T cuck

 

[Deusmaximus]

Sounds more like you wanna push your business from the profile picture

 

[NickGurr]

mood chaos

CHAD OR DEATH CHAD OR DEATH CHAD OR DEATH CHAD OR DEATH

Sounds more like you wanna push your business from the profile picture

Low T

 

[Rimcel]

Theres No gym for your face

My face improved a lot from Test and DHT overflood

 

[belnar93]

Na

High T


With test you can more easilt build your masseters, if youre lucky you can also morph and become a bit more masculine and grow a beard

But ok low T cuck

Nah im good

My face improved a lot from Test and DHT overflood

 

[Deleted member 147]

I fucking love this thread.

Injecting = life.

Have you tried letro before? Even pro bodybuilders can get hell from 0.5mg eod. And you are both taking letro with aromasin. The nuke of E will be extreme, very extreme. killing aromatase + preventing the ones left from binding basically.

I recommend working up to the dosage tbh ngl, no need to rush the gynocide.

What about the aromasin metabolite that is 40x as strong as DHT?

Also, from my reading on psychiatry.

Nuking E + taking tren + inhibition of prolactin + taking a stimulant is a recipe for mood chaos.

I am religiously against DNP.

I appreciate and support the guinea pig mentality. I am doing it as well (blasting GHK-cu soon), but it should be done with more caution.
Just my 2 cents.

I will support you if you still want to go ahead with it.

Also, @jefferson gtfih.

Yeah I'm cutting out the Aromasin and halving the Letrozole dosage. (I'm only taking it for 5 days). With metro you don't have to ramp up the dosage, but you do have to ramp down.

Prolactin doesn't affect mood in men. You can crash your prolactin and have very minimal sides.

Also, the Tren and Test don't even kick in for another 5 weeks minimum. By then Letrozole will be out of my system.

 

[Extra Chromosome]

Yeah I'm cutting out the Aromasin and halving the Letrozole dosage. (I'm only taking it for 5 days). With metro you don't have to ramp up the dosage, but you do have to ramp down.

Prolactin doesn't affect mood in men. You can crash your prolactin and have very minimal sides.

Also, the Tren and Test don't even kick in for another 5 weeks minimum. By then Letrozole will be out of my system.

Sweet tbh.
I read DHB as DNP retardedly as well.

Actions of Prolactin in the Brain: From Physiological Adaptations to Stress and Neurogenesis to Psychopathology

Prolactin (PRL) is one of the most versatile hormones known. It is considered an adaptive hormone due to the key roles it plays in the modulation of the stress response and during pregnancy and lactation. Within the brain, PRL acts as a neuropeptide to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

^ talks about prolactin, but it is more of a result than causation. Just taking into account.
I'm rooting for you. I put the thread on watch so no need to tag.
If you don't update us I will assume you died.

 

[Steve bachall]

Was gonna say why you taking steroids with a physique like that but then I read the last bit so gl

 

[Deleted member 147]

Was gonna say why you taking steroids with a physique like that but then I read the last bit so gl

If people can get wasted every weekend on alcohol, and gain nothing, then I can Inject hormones and improve my mind and body in multiple ways.

 

[jefferson]

Thats quite the stack mate. Ur probably gonna get some bad sides tbh. But I hope you don't. Should be a beast by the end of it.

 

[Extra Chromosome]

Needle squad thread tbh ngl

 

[Deleted member 147]

Thats quite the stack mate. Ur probably gonna get some bad sides tbh. But I hope you don't. Should be a beast by the end of it.

You mean side-hoes?

 

[jefferson]

You mean side-hoes?

ye brah

 

[ZUZZCEL]

shud hop on 1000mg of rethinking life choices


just read the op post and holy fuck this guy is a idiot.


your taking all that?

if anything wht u need is to eat more food.

if u look like that after a few cycles (ur before pic) then u have no buisnes roiding until u actually look like u lift since u clearly dont know wtf ur doing.

 

[ghkid2019]

Letrozole doesn't work in a few hours. You lost water weight, that's why your 'gyno' reduced. And you should eat more, workout more. Without those two you will waste your money

 

[Deleted member 147]

shud hop on 1000mg of rethinking life choices


just read the op post and holy fuck this guy is a idiot.


your taking all that?

if anything wht u need is to eat more food.

if u look like that after a few cycles (ur before pic) then u have no buisnes roiding until u actually look like u lift since u clearly dont know wtf ur doing.

I say I shouldn't food to be polite. But really, it's my business roiding if I want it to be lol. Who the fuck are you? You don't know anything about what I've done and taken in what time

 

[ZUZZCEL]

I say I shouldn't food to be polite. But really, it's my business roiding if I want it to be lol. Who the fuck are you? You don't know anything about what I've done and taken in what time

i know uv ran a couple of cycles lmfao.


and if u still look like a twink after a few cycles u shouldnt do any more, and shud focus on natty lifting for the time being.


also ur genetics arent that great, your better off staying natty then risking ur health to look natty

 

[Cretinous]

well I'm not going to call you an idiot, but i can tell you that 90% of your drug plan is a waste of money at your level of development and its not like its cumulative - the exact opposite infact, with quickly diminishing returns.

I could rewrite your drug plan right now to be ultimately as effective but significantly cheaper and with less side effects.

If you're running HCG, you dont need testosterone, your balls will produce plenty. And if you then dont use testosterone, you will not need the letrozole to keep estrogen low (which is inefficient when using large amounts of testosterone anyway - people would do well to take a look at what AIs do in normal non-steroid using men... long story short: all of them are actually weaker than what is frequently suggested on the internet). Too much HCG too, 250ius 3 x week would be totally sufficient to maintain your testes function.

DNP? Why on earth? Terrible drug.

DHB? Dihydroboldenone? I dont know why anyone would go out of their way to acquire this, other than the candy shop mentality of steroid users producing total myths about it (hurr durr its rare, so its magic!)

Caber is totally unnecessary. It is an absolutely moronic myth that trenbolone (or nandrolone for that matter) requires antiprolactin drugs. Testosterone more strongly stimulates prolactin than trenbolone does. Refer to veterinary literature if you dont believe me.

so lets rejig this and make let the actual star anabolics shine:

1-6: Anadrol 50mg/day
1-16: 700mg/week TREN
1-16: 250ius x 3 /week HCG
1-16: T3
keep letrozole (id prefer nolvadex but if you've already got letro, whatever) on hand for the off-chance that you produce too much E2 from the HCG dose, and in which event, the HCG should be reduced to twice weekly.

This is significantly cheaper, will have less side effects and you'll look better by the end too.
oh i missed the bit about you having gyno from puberty. you need nolvadex, not letro. FFS use NOLVADEX.
p.p.s i would actually recommend halving the dose for the tren in my proposed plan for you, but i get the feeling you're one of those NO DAD FUCK YOU IM GONNA MEGADOSE types

 

[ZUZZCEL]

well I'm not going to call you an idiot, but i can tell you that 90% of your drug plan is a waste of money at your level of development and its not like its cumulative - the exact opposite infact, with quickly diminishing returns.

I could rewrite your drug plan right now to be ultimately as effective but significantly cheaper and with less side effects.

If you're running HCG, you dont need testosterone, your balls will produce plenty. And if you then dont use testosterone, you will not need the letrozole to keep estrogen low (which is inefficient when using large amounts of testosterone anyway - people would do well to take a look at what AIs do in normal non-steroid using men... long story short: all of them are actually weaker than what is frequently suggested on the internet). Too much HCG too, 250ius 3 x week would be totally sufficient to maintain your testes function.

DNP? Why on earth? Terrible drug.

DHB? Dihydroboldenone? I dont know why anyone would go out of their way to acquire this, other than the candy shop mentality of steroid users producing total myths about it (hurr durr its rare, so its magic!)

Caber is totally unnecessary. It is an absolutely moronic myth that trenbolone (or nandrolone for that matter) requires antiprolactin drugs. Testosterone more strongly stimulates prolactin than trenbolone does. Refer to veterinary literature if you dont believe me.

so lets rejig this and make let the actual star anabolics shine:

1-6: Anadrol 50mg/day
1-16: 700mg/week TREN
1-16: 250ius x 3 /week HCG
1-16: T3
keep letrozole (id prefer nolvadex but if you've already got letro, whatever) on hand for the off-chance that you produce too much E2 from the HCG dose, and in which event, the HCG should be reduced to twice weekly.

This is significantly cheaper, will have less side effects and you'll look better by the end too.
oh i missed the bit about you having gyno from puberty. you need nolvadex, not letro. FFS use NOLVADEX.
p.p.s i would actually recommend halving the dose for the tren in my proposed plan for you, but i get the feeling you're one of those NO DAD FUCK YOU IM GONNA MEGADOSE types

hes batshit crazy or he just doesnt know wht hes doing.

tren and anadrol is gunna prevent him from gaining actual lean tissue espically since drol kills ur appetite. adding in t3 also =wtf

ths cycle doesnt even make sense.


he would make more gainz natty eating 500 kcal surplus and lifting then this cycle tbh, and look and feel better



@shimada how dumb is this cycle?

 

[Extra Chromosome]

I thought I read DHB and DNP.
Reading again, DNP was mentioned in the first paragraph. It is a shit drug.

Even roiders need time due to body limits.
Do what @Cretinous said imo tbh.

 

[Deleted member 147]

hes batshit crazy or he just doesnt know wht hes doing.

tren and anadrol is gunna prevent him from gaining actual lean tissue espically since drol kills ur appetite. adding in t3 also =wtf

ths cycle doesnt even make sense.


he would make more gainz natty eating 500 kcal surplus and lifting then this cycle tbh, and look and feel better



@shimada how dumb is this cycle?

Tren temporarily reduces your T3 production idiot.
And I not everyone has a suppressed appetite with anadrol, and some people even. The DHB increases appetite to combat the Tren.

And 1 450 Test E cycle with winstrol isn't going to turn anyone into Ronnie fucking Coleman. Just fucking lol at your sanity if you think eating in a 500cal surplus as a natty is even close to running this cycle. You sound so salty, like you're hurt...

You're the only idiot here having unrealistic expectations of roids and that's hard to do. One cycle isn't gonna put someone over their genetic fucking limit if they started at an average-joe physique.

You don't measure roids success by how fucking huge the guy is. You measure it by the INCREASE in that person's physique. And I've spoken with guys 20x more experienced than you who've said I made good progress considering time/training/cycle/experience ect ect.

You know that there are guys on steroid forums that would laugh the fuck out of you for roiding too right...? Like if we gonna go down the traditional route of "paying your dues" then you wouldn't be eligible either.

I'm just going to be a fake natty from now on. People like you who don't understand how shit works just scream louder and louder "u look natty" like an idiot.

well I'm not going to call you an idiot, but i can tell you that 90% of your drug plan is a waste of money at your level of development and its not like its cumulative - the exact opposite infact, with quickly diminishing returns.

I could rewrite your drug plan right now to be ultimately as effective but significantly cheaper and with less side effects.

If you're running HCG, you dont need testosterone, your balls will produce plenty. And if you then dont use testosterone, you will not need the letrozole to keep estrogen low (which is inefficient when using large amounts of testosterone anyway - people would do well to take a look at what AIs do in normal non-steroid using men... long story short: all of them are actually weaker than what is frequently suggested on the internet). Too much HCG too, 250ius 3 x week would be totally sufficient to maintain your testes function.

DNP? Why on earth? Terrible drug.

DHB? Dihydroboldenone? I dont know why anyone would go out of their way to acquire this, other than the candy shop mentality of steroid users producing total myths about it (hurr durr its rare, so its magic!)

Caber is totally unnecessary. It is an absolutely moronic myth that trenbolone (or nandrolone for that matter) requires antiprolactin drugs. Testosterone more strongly stimulates prolactin than trenbolone does. Refer to veterinary literature if you dont believe me.

so lets rejig this and make let the actual star anabolics shine:

1-6: Anadrol 50mg/day
1-16: 700mg/week TREN
1-16: 250ius x 3 /week HCG
1-16: T3
keep letrozole (id prefer nolvadex but if you've already got letro, whatever) on hand for the off-chance that you produce too much E2 from the HCG dose, and in which event, the HCG should be reduced to twice weekly.

This is significantly cheaper, will have less side effects and you'll look better by the end too.
oh i missed the bit about you having gyno from puberty. you need nolvadex, not letro. FFS use NOLVADEX.
p.p.s i would actually recommend halving the dose for the tren in my proposed plan for you, but i get the feeling you're one of those NO DAD FUCK YOU IM GONNA MEGADOSE types

Money isn't really a huge problem the gear is pretty cheap for me.

I am taking nolvadex for my gyno, I'm just taking Letrozole for 5 days as well. I could explain why, because I do have a reason, but not going to bother.

DNP I used for 7 fucking days re-fucking-lax.

Nah DHB has been tried by the pros by now and it's gotten their greenlight. It's basically a stronger Equipoise.

You guys seem to forget I've ran all this past people more experienced than anyone here.

When I wanted advice did you actually think I went to the autism forum? ??? I Ient to the veterans man.

But @Cretinous does seem to be playable as well. The only guy who gave me High IQ advice without sounding like an emotional autistic virgin.

 

[ZUZZCEL]

Tren temporarily reduces your T3 production idiot.
And I not everyone has a suppressed appetite with anadrol, and some people even. The DHB increases appetite to combat the Tren.

And 1 450 Test E cycle with winstrol isn't going to turn anyone into Ronnie fucking Coleman. Just fucking lol at your sanity if you think eating in a 500cal surplus as a natty is even close to running this cycle. You sound so salty, like you're hurt...

You're the only idiot here having unrealistic expectations of roids and that's hard to do. One cycle isn't gonna put someone over their genetic fucking limit if they started at an average-joe physique.

You don't measure roids success by how fucking huge the guy is. You measure it by the INCREASE in that person's physique. And I've spoken with guys 20x more experienced than you who've said I made good progress considering time/training/cycle/experience ect ect.

You know that there are guys on steroid forums that would laugh the fuck out of you for roiding too right...? Like if we gonna go down the traditional route of "paying your dues" then you wouldn't be eligible either.

I'm just going to be a fake natty from now on. People like you who don't understand how shit works just scream louder and louder "u look natty" like an idiot.


Money isn't really a huge problem the gear is pretty cheap for me.

I am taking nolvadex for my gyno, I'm just taking Letrozole for 5 days as well. I could explain why, because I do have a reason, but not going to bother.

DNP I used for 7 fucking days re-fucking-lax.

Nah DHB has been tried by the pros by now and it's gotten their greenlight. It's basically a stronger Equipoise.

You guys seem to forget I've ran all this past people more experienced than anyone here.

When I wanted advice did you actually think I went to the autism forum? ??? I Ient to the veterans man.

But @Cretinous does seem to be playable as well. The only guy who gave me High IQ advice without sounding like an emotional autistic virgin.

lmao ok bud, lets just wait and see after this cycle. ur just be a twink still. mark my words.


lets just see...

 

[AntiSocial-Fakecel]

lmao ok bud, lets just wait and see after this cycle. ur just be a twink still. mark my words.


lets just see...

 

[Alexanderr]

Yes bro

 

[NickGurr]

i know uv ran a couple of cycles lmfao.


and if u still look like a twink after a few cycles u shouldnt do any more, and shud focus on natty lifting for the time being.


also ur genetics arent that great, your better off staying natty then risking ur health to look natty

"muh reach your natty potential first"

whats the point if youre gonna roid eventually anyway? youre not special, you wont grow more muscle or faster than anybody else

View attachment 37863

steals me

 

[ZUZZCEL]

"muh reach your natty potential first"

whats the point if youre gonna roid eventually anyway? youre not special, you wont grow more muscle or faster than anybody else


steals me

im never said reach ur natty potenital, i meant having a base natty first.

you should know how to eat/train before u roid.

 

[Deleted member 147]

im never said reach ur natty potenital, i meant having a base natty first.

you should know how to eat/train before u roid.

I know how to eat/train at the very least. I read a shit load.

 

[ZUZZCEL]

I know how to eat/train at the very least. I read a shit load.

how come u cant bench 2 plates after a few cycles then?

 

[jefferson]

Caber is totally unnecessary. It is an absolutely moronic myth that trenbolone (or nandrolone for that matter) requires antiprolactin drugs. Testosterone more strongly stimulates prolactin than trenbolone does.

Wrong. Maybe its like nandrolone where is doesnt stimulate prolactin unless you also have test. I need anti prolactin drugs on as little as 200mg nand or I start lactating and get pointy nips despite having crashed estrogen.

So many ppl have gotten bloodwork of raised prolactin from tren or nand. You stating that is the equivalent to being a flat earther.

 

[Deleted member 483]

You stating that is the equivalent to being a flat earther.

Spoiler

this guy is face(on yt) of high fat, meat based diet

 

[Deleted member 147]

how come u cant bench 2 plates after a few cycles then?

A few?

And who says I can't bench 2 plates?

 

[AyWiz]

I think i should run nolvadex and caber too

 

[Cretinous]

Wrong. Maybe its like nandrolone where is doesnt stimulate prolactin unless you also have test. I need anti prolactin drugs on as little as 200mg nand or I start lactating and get pointy nips despite having crashed estrogen.

So many ppl have gotten bloodwork of raised prolactin from tren or nand. You stating that is the equivalent to being a flat earther.

a bunch of us on the now defunct meso-rx, t nation and anabolicminds forums many many years ago and went into a deep dive on case studies, veterinary literature and human literature (of which there is plenty for nandrolone, since it is FDA approved for human use). We even tried to contort to the theory (for tren/nandrolone = prolactin) in good faith. It was a dead end, not only is there no evidence to suggest this relationship in the first place, in the practical examination of people's cases (e.g bloodwork) often times despite the individual complaining of gyno symptoms and leaky nipples, had LOW PROLACTIN .. almost universally however, they had HIGH ESTRADIOL (and yes, often in spite of using AIs... which is why i keep telling people: AIs are not as strong in men as people mistakenly think based on how they feel. It is quite possible to have low sex drive, brain fog and achy joints while having very high serum E2, as is often the case with individuals using large amounts of test)

you say "so many ppl" but I highly doubt you can produce even one individual who has bloodwork on x amount of testosterone and then bloodwork after the only thing having changed is the addition of nandrolone or trenbolone. I doubt this so much so, because I know the community all too well and i know the average person posting on steroid forums is worse than stupid. Thats not how they roll, which is to run a cocktail of anywhere from 3 to as much as 8 or even 10 drugs, and then pretend they can tell what is doing what. And I'll thank you to be honest in this regard: any case you are aware of almost certainly involves a large amount of testosterone and has no basis for comparison.

Nandrolone was the base drug of choice throughout the 60s and 70s and even early 80s. (and not at little either, if you take casey viator at his word, guys like mentzer were doing as much as 2000mg/week of nandrolone) Drugs such as cabergoline didn't come until the 90s. And yet gyno and other mammary related pathology were extremely rare. Franco Columbo won the 1981 olympia with a huge unilateral gyno, and it was such an uncommon sight on the stage that he was the target of much ridicule. Once testosterone became the drug of choice in the 90s (for a lot of reasons i may one day write about because it is an interesting, and very layered story) gyno, acne and hair loss became frequently observed in the gym rat populace. Suddenly we have the necessity of ancillary drugs to control side effects. Many of the guys going on stage now have had gyno surgery out of necessity because of the huge dosages of testosterone being used near universally. But perish the thought we should consider using less or none of the drug that is causing the problems in the first place. This is pigheaded, to say the least.

the actual equivalent of a flat earther in this regard, is all the people who keep insisting on a relationship with no evidence and even evidence to the contrary because "it just makes sense". I'm being sincere; if you have comparative bloodwork showing prolactin being elevated after the addition of trenbolone or nandrolone, I want to see it. Because i wasted close to 6 months trying to find that back in the day, and came up with jack shit, not least because roiders in general tend towards being hopelessly unreliable people (incidentally, this is also why despite this culture being around for over 60 years, we still have no idea what a truly effective PCT program looks like, just a lot of assumptions and hopeful interpretations from urology and endo literature)

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/106002808001400705
serum prolactin in humans FELL with ND administration and INCREASED with TE administration.

now, I'm willing to reservedly accept an explanation that the combination of N and T somehow enhances/increases the estrogenic effects of T by some hereto unknown mechanism, and at least one smart cookie i know of has tried to propose such a mechanism (via increasing the production of aromatase), but it cannot be said that N increases prolactin, because it doesnt, and at the end of the day the culprit behind mammary related pathology (including pseudo lactation , e.g oily discharge from the nipple) always, always, always turns out to be an estrogen. The biggest source of estrogens in any given drug program, is always the testosterone. And one cannot know if serum E2 is "crashed" (highly unlikely) based off feeling, you need bloodwork showing the serum E2 is low.

 

[jefferson]

a bunch of us on the now defunct meso-rx, t nation and anabolicminds forums many many years ago and went into a deep dive on case studies, veterinary literature and human literature (of which there is plenty for nandrolone, since it is FDA approved for human use). We even tried to contort to the theory (for tren/nandrolone = prolactin) in good faith. It was a dead end, not only is there no evidence to suggest this relationship in the first place, in the practical examination of people's cases (e.g bloodwork) often times despite the individual complaining of gyno symptoms and leaky nipples, had LOW PROLACTIN .. almost universally however, they had HIGH ESTRADIOL (and yes, often in spite of using AIs... which is why i keep telling people: AIs are not as strong in men as people mistakenly think based on how they feel. It is quite possible to have low sex drive, brain fog and achy joints while having very high serum E2, as is often the case with individuals using large amounts of test)

you say "so many ppl" but I highly doubt you can produce even one individual who has bloodwork on x amount of testosterone and then bloodwork after the only thing having changed is the addition of nandrolone or trenbolone. I doubt this so much so, because I know the community all too well and i know the average person posting on steroid forums is worse than stupid. Thats not how they roll, which is to run a cocktail of anywhere from 3 to as much as 8 or even 10 drugs, and then pretend they can tell what is doing what. And I'll thank you to be honest in this regard: any case you are aware of almost certainly involves a large amount of testosterone and has no basis for comparison.

Nandrolone was the base drug of choice throughout the 60s and 70s and even early 80s. (and not at little either, if you take casey viator at his word, guys like mentzer were doing as much as 2000mg/week of nandrolone) Drugs such as cabergoline didn't come until the 90s. And yet gyno and other mammary related pathology were extremely rare. Franco Columbo won the 1981 olympia with a huge unilateral gyno, and it was such an uncommon sight on the stage that he was the target of much ridicule. Once testosterone became the drug of choice in the 90s (for a lot of reasons i may one day write about because it is an interesting, and very layered story) gyno, acne and hair loss became frequently observed in the gym rat populace. Suddenly we have the necessity of ancillary drugs to control side effects. Many of the guys going on stage now have had gyno surgery out of necessity because of the huge dosages of testosterone being used near universally. But perish the thought we should consider using less or none of the drug that is causing the problems in the first place. This is pigheaded, to say the least.

the actual equivalent of a flat earther in this regard, is all the people who keep insisting on a relationship with no evidence and even evidence to the contrary because "it just makes sense". I'm being sincere; if you have comparative bloodwork showing prolactin being elevated after the addition of trenbolone or nandrolone, I want to see it. Because i wasted close to 6 months trying to find that back in the day, and came up with jack shit, not least because roiders in general tend towards being hopelessly unreliable people (incidentally, this is also why despite this culture being around for over 60 years, we still have no idea what a truly effective PCT program looks like, just a lot of assumptions and hopeful interpretations from urology and endo literature)

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/106002808001400705
serum prolactin in humans FELL with ND administration and INCREASED with TE administration.

now, I'm willing to reservedly accept an explanation that the combination of N and T somehow enhances/increases the estrogenic effects of T by some hereto unknown mechanism, and at least one smart cookie i know of has tried to propose such a mechanism (via increasing the production of aromatase), but it cannot be said that N increases prolactin, because it doesnt, and at the end of the day the culprit behind mammary related pathology (including pseudo lactation , e.g oily discharge from the nipple) always, always, always turns out to be an estrogen. The biggest source of estrogens in any given drug program, is always the testosterone. And one cannot know if serum E2 is "crashed" (highly unlikely) based off feeling, you need bloodwork showing the serum E2 is low.

You sure can type alot for someone who's retarded

not gonna go over all that but heres how it is.

nand = no prolactin spike
nand plus test = huge prolactin spike if prone
test = smaller prolactin spike if prone

but nand isnt even good without test hence why ppl use test

Im not fully sure but I beleive tren is the same way in regards to the prolactin