UPPER maxillary projection is the key to aesthetics

[StrangerDanger]

Suifuel mine is shit despite being white, kind of like the East-Asian woman in the after picture but my zygos are more forward so the transistion is slightly worse, my nose also looks similar. How do you fix this? Bimax + Implants?

 

[Deleted member 5061]

Suifuel mine is shit despite being white, kind of like the East-Asian woman in the after picture but my zygos are more forward so the transistion is slightly worse, my nose also looks similar. How do you fix this? Bimax + Implants?

Its hard to believe she ascended like that with only rhinoplasty:

I actually checked his IG and no other women had such a huge ascension after just a rhinoplasty. The after pic is either morphed or some jaw surgery.

 

[Agendum]

The questions are: can a bone be deformed to fit that shape? Can it be achieved by stretching the "fingers" of sutures over long periods of time. Is any form of plasticity out of the question or are osteotomies the only option?

 

[Deleted member 5061]

The questions are: can a bone be deformed to fit that shape? Can it be achieved by stretching the "fingers" of sutures over long periods of time. Is any form of plasticity out of the question or are osteotomies the only option?

Up to a certain age it should be possible to achieve with hardmewing and applying tons of pressure at the back of the tongue, again depends on age. The younger a person is, the thinner the bones are, so up to like puberty it should be possible to improve the projection of upper maxilla.

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Oh my Word this thread is pure gold

 

[patricknotstar]

What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.

View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​

The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.

View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​

This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.

---

What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.

View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​

The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:

View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​

The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.

View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​

Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.

View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​

An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:

View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​

As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.

---

The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:

View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​

Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).

View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​

His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:

View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​

I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.

---

The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).

View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​

As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.

View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​

---

What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.

Great high value post OP

 

[tyronelite]

High IQ post. @thecel Can I DM you real quick?

 

[thecel]

High IQ post. @thecel Can I DM you real quick?

Yea

 

[Deleted member 10172]

What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.

View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​

The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.

View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​

This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.

---

What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.

View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​

The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:

View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​

The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.

View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​

Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.

View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​

An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:

View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​

As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.

---

The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:

View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​

Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).

View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​

His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:

View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​

I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.

---

The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).

View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​

As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.

View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​

---

What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.

thecel I wanted to talk to you about the maxillary base being put in the posterir part and the anteface

 

[thecel]

thecel I wanted to talk to you about the maxillary base being put in the posterir part and the anteface


View attachment 1039076

Cool. elab

 

[Deleted member 10172]

Cool. elab

dr sailer talks about the anteface and how attractive faces are forward grown

he was talking about bimaxillary rotation using CCW rotation on both jaws

he said he used this device to move the maxillary base, leaving the upper part of the maxilla with some distraction device




he talks about moving the maxillary base in the posterior part, and when he did that he had so much good results with the facial surgeries



Is it possible for a surgeon to do this thecel can u recommend jaw surgeons or email them if its possible to get this done for under 15k

 

[Deleted member 4014]

Explains why I have a huge fucking beak nose lmao

 

[Lolcel]

Why does this curry not look good then?

 

[Deleted member 7823]

I have good maxilla projectiom but recessed lower jaw resulting in an overbite.

 

[AlwaysHaveQuestions]

Suifuel mine is shit despite being white, kind of like the East-Asian woman in the after picture but my zygos are more forward so the transistion is slightly worse, my nose also looks similar. How do you fix this? Bimax + Implants?

custom infraorbital implant

 

[ProAcktiv]

Funny, I've also come to realize this. I just didn't think of it in as sophisticated a manner as you. But I was thinking pretty much the same thing, especially the part where you talk about how the bones taper forward toward the nose when the upper maxilla is projected forwards.

I think this has some to do with why vinnie hacker is attractive. He has great upper maxilla projection. Even from a frontal view you can see how his bones taper towards the nose. It just adds a much-needed element of angularity

 

[RODEBLUR]

What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.

View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​

The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.

View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​

This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.

---

What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.

View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​

The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:

View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​

The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.

View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​

Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.

View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​

An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:

View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​

As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.

---

The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:

View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​

Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).

View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​

His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:

View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​

I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.

---

The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).

View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​

As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.

View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​

---

What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.

So just have a good maxilla? What's all this ''upper'' bullshit.

 

[Deleted member 9467]

this is some self hating mental gymnastics

 

[Deleted member 13137]

@thecel can I dm you

 

[thecel]

@thecel can I dm you

ye

 

[pizza]

bimax affect the triangle?

 

[Benjibanks]

What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.

View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​

The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.

View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​

This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.

---

What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.

View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​

The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:

View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​

The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.

View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​

Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.

View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​

An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:

View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​

As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.

---

The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:

View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​

Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).

View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​

His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:

View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​

I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.

---

The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).

View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​

As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.

View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​

---

What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.

This is making me think I can’t make implants in them safe work because I need to pull the nasal base up as a whole which I doubt any surgeon will do

 

[Sal123]

Would paranasal implants have a big effect in advavinge the maxilla area

 

[Deleted member 6403]

you're on the right track but it isn't everything tbh

i have a neutral orbital vector and upper maxilla and i still have slight lower eye lid droopiness when i don't squint

 

[Sal123]

you're on the right track but it isn't everything tbh

i have a neutral orbital vector and upper maxilla and i still have slight lower eye lid droopiness when i don't squint

What’s neutral orbital vector and upper maxilla mean? U had implant ?

 

[Deleted member 6403]

What’s neutral orbital vector and upper maxilla mean? U had implant ?

upper part

and nah

 

[Sal123]

View attachment 1107570
upper part
View attachment 1107571
and nah

I see, mines neutral too, is that ideal, I don’t get the positive vs reverse negative , I get the latter has an implant but doesn’t that make is positive

 

[Chinlet Ascension]

This is the best thread I've seen on looksmax so far.

I was wondering about the model Christen Harper. Apparently she is a Japanese/Euromerican hapa. Why doesn't she look more Asian? Because her upper maxilla is forward-set like a European.

 

[thecel]

Would paranasal implants have a big effect in advavinge the maxilla area

Ya

 

[thecel]

This is the best thread I've seen on looksmax so far.

I was wondering about the model Christen Harper. Apparently she is a Japanese/Euromerican hapa. Why doesn't she look more Asian? Because her upper maxilla is forward-set like a European.

View attachment 1107762View attachment 1107763

i guess genes

 

[joseph]

Ya

is that the only way to improve upper maxilla projection atm?

 

[thecel]

is that the only way to improve upper maxilla projection atm?

Le Fort II and III

 

[LebenistneHure]

This is making me think I can’t make implants in them safe work because I need to pull the nasal base up as a whole which I doubt any surgeon will do

Thats impossible to do, you cant change how low or high your nasal base sits. I wish you could, because shortening my nose length by a few mms through raising the base would be enough to qualify me as a normie. If you have sny idea on how to do that,pm me pls.

 

[Deleted member 13511]

Le Fort II and III

Thoughts?

 

[zeke714]

What are some symptoms of a recessed maxilla? Is it true if you have trouble breathing through your nose (usually thru one nostril), your maxilla is likely recessed?

 

[CursedOne]

Ive noticed that most europeans have forwardset maxillas while most non whites are recessed.

 

[Benjibanks]

Ok so I thought lefort moved the nasal area a little bit because of you the lower maxilla is positioned. Would you reocmmend implants or fat grafts instead tho? This is a side view I just took today. I still am pursuing bimax but in the meantime I’d like to do something for improvement

Thats impossible to do, you cant change how low or high your nasal base sits. I wish you could, because shortening my nose length by a few mms through raising the base would be enough to qualify me as a normie. If you have sny idea on how to do that,pm me pls.

 

[Benjibanks]

Thats impossible to do, you cant change how low or high your nasal base sits. I wish you could, because shortening my nose length by a few mms through raising the base would be enough to qualify me as a normie. If you have sny idea on how to do that,pm me pls.

What throws me is the fact that my nasal base will stay the same so I don’t know if it’s even possible to make midface implants or fillers work for me. My plastic surgeon is skilled but I don’t know if even skill will make this work out. Also lefort 2 is likely not in the cards just due to no one willing to do it here although I’m still going to try for it or have whoever does the bimax do a higher cut

 

[joseph]

Le Fort II and III

Midface implants as well

 

[TheEndHasNoEnd]

Upper maxilla is pretty overrated tbh, its good for anti aging but bad for masculine type of hollow cheeks, where the areas next to the nose are hollowed out:

Opry has this high set zygos look because of his recessed upper maxilla:

Obviously, the face needs to be very lean, but these sort of hollow cheeks wouldnt be possible on someone with forward upper maxilla and big zygos (barrett). If the sacrifice of one feature means benefit for another feature that is objectively more important, ill take the latter.

 

[Benjibanks]

What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.

View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​

The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.

View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​

This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.

---

What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.

View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​

The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:

View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​

The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.

View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​

Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.

View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​

An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:

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Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​

As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.

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The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:

View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​

Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).

View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​

His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:

View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​

I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.

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The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).

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Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​

As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.

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Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​

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What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.

So would this mean I’m better off doing mid face fat grafting or implants by a skilled plastic surgeon? Asking because I’ve only been offered lefort 1 and while I’m still planning on getting it for functional reasons as well I would like some feed back if it’s advisable to get work done for my upper maxilla in the meantime as the bimax is going to be a long time potentially and I could always have the surgeon account for my newly projected upper maxilla so I remain in harmony.

 

[thecel]

Obviously, the face needs to be very lean, but these sort of hollow cheeks wouldnt be possible on someone with forward upper maxilla and big zygos (barrett). If the sacrifice of one feature means benefit for another feature that is objectively more important, ill take the latter.

“and big zygos”

What about forward upper maxilla and small zygos? That doesn’t sacrifice hollow cheeks.

 

[bugeye]

Surgeries to fix this? Except lefort 3

 

[TheEndHasNoEnd]

“and big zygos”

What about forward upper maxilla and small zygos? That doesn’t sacrifice hollow cheeks

It does, it creates the type 1 hollow cheeks rather than 2

I mean both are good to have, but 2 is much better and rarer imo

 

[Need2Ascend]

Upper maxilla is pretty overrated tbh, its good for anti aging but bad for masculine type of hollow cheeks, where the areas next to the nose are hollowed out:
View attachment 1231993
Opry has this high set zygos look because of his recessed upper maxilla:
View attachment 1232002
Obviously, the face needs to be very lean, but these sort of hollow cheeks wouldnt be possible on someone with forward upper maxilla and big zygos (barrett). If the sacrifice of one feature means benefit for another feature that is objectively more important, ill take the latter.

True, a projected upper maxilla can look absolutely aesthetic but it isn't masculine
What all MM however have in common though is a WIDE upper maxilla. Chico, O'Pry, Barrett, Gandy, Meeks, even Orb and Amnesia have above average upper maxilla width(not to confuse with byzigomatic width since you could have a wide face coming from high bone mass on your zygomatic arches rather than a wide upper maxilla)
Intererestingly actors, like Somerhalder or Pitt, on the other hand have rather normal or below average maxilla width

 

[thecel]

The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​

Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

ayo!

the MRI scans at the bottoms look just like the Caucasian–Asian comparison drawings!

 

[Deleted member 5786]

@subhuman incel

 

[ChristianChad]

Faurk this is a good post

 

[Deleted member 5786]

is he recessed?

@subhuman incel

 

[Deleted member 14918]

Do you think retractive orthodontics with headgear and elastics have the potential to recess the nasal base too at 14-15 years when the shape of the upper part of face is mostly done? found a study that the connections between zygos and maxilla fuse around 15 or 16 but never that much later, can mse weaken them to gain a few mms with facepulling? seen a study of adult woman with more projected nose after this, but guess its mostly luck