Serious Why MSE is more important than Bimax LONG-TERM

SPFromNY914

SPFromNY914

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#1.MSE's results are permanent unless your tongue gets paralyzed
#2.Bimax tends to have quite a good amount of relapses
'3. Any potential gains possible with MSE+Facepulling or MSE+Incisor Chewing is more natural and permanent than gains from surgery
#4. MSE Can habituate mewing/proper oral posture and proper oral posture WILL make or break how your face ages and you well you can breathe
#5.Slight true Cheekbone expansion that ain't going to be achieved with Bimax or Lefort 1
#6. MSE is better for freeing up space for dental implants compared to sarpe,conventional expanders, or widening from surgery
#7 IF indeed natural CCW IS Possible from Mewing over a very long period of time (Let's say 5 or 10+ years like the Mews and Magnum Workshop claim), MSE is your one way to ticket to make sure your palate is good and solid to readily mew
 
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Sergio-OMS

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#1.MSE's results are permanent unless your tongue gets paralyzed
#2.Bimax tends to have quite a good amount of relapses
'3. Any potentially gains possible with MSE+Facepulling or MSE+Incisor Chewing is more natural and permanent than gains from surgery.
#4. MSE Can habituate mewing/proper oral posture and proper oral posture WILL make or break how your face ages and you well you can breathe.
#5.Slight true Cheekbone expansion that can't really be achieved with Bimax or Lefort 1
#6. MSE is better for freeing up space for dental implants compared to sarpe or widening from surgery
#7 IF indeed natural CCW IS Possible from Mewing over a very long period of time (Let's say 5 or 10+ years like the Mews and Magnum Workshop claim), MSE is your one way to ticket to make sure your palate is good and solid to readily mew

It really depends on how bimax is done, especially fixation of the bone fragments.
 
SPFromNY914

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It really depends on how bimax is done, especially fixation of the bone fragments.
Yeah for sure Doc, but lemme ask you this....
Would you say that a SuperBimax( CCW Lefort 1,BSSO,IMDO,Genio) will have a higher chance of relapse compared to a conventional Bimax? Also, would having CCW on a Bimax affect the chances of relapse or you really can't say? , yk I appreciate all your time regardless if you awsner or not.🖤
 
Slayerino

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#1.MSE's results are permanent unless your tongue gets paralyzed
#2.Bimax tends to have quite a good amount of relapses
'3. Any potential gains possible with MSE+Facepulling or MSE+Incisor Chewing is more natural and permanent than gains from surgery
#4. MSE Can habituate mewing/proper oral posture and proper oral posture WILL make or break how your face ages and you well you can breathe
#5.Slight true Cheekbone expansion that ain't going to be achieved with Bimax or Lefort 1
#6. MSE is better for freeing up space for dental implants compared to sarpe,conventional expanders, or widening from surgery
#7 IF indeed natural CCW IS Possible from Mewing over a very long period of time (Let's say 5 or 10+ years like the Mews and Magnum Workshop claim), MSE is your one way to ticket to make sure your palate is good and solid to readily mew
I had MSE+MSDO+FM and I can tell you I wish I didn't waste the money on those things and went straight for the bimax.
 
SPFromNY914

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I had MSE+MSDO+FM and I can tell you I wish I didn't waste the money on those things and went straight for the bimax.
I literally meant Long term bro as in over many many years. But imo MSDO is a waste of money for anyone. As far as facepulling goes, it's hit or miss but it's still worth the shot imo especially if y'all suppement it and you're under 25
Then again, I'm realizing Bimax relapse is still more common than I thought even in 2020. Imagine all that money,pain, and nerve damage just to relapse smh. Looking back at it, Ronald Eid was correct. It really should be the last resort bruh.
Harsh truth is this: There's no one Path for looksmaxxing or surgerymaxxing, you gotta take everything with a grain of salt and be patient to let shit play out you feel me.
 
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RichardwillImprove

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breathing gains are insane i got it in now also do u think u should put more force to the front of palate when mewing for counter clockwise rotation.
 
ItisOver

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I had MSE+MSDO+FM and I can tell you I wish I didn't waste the money on those things and went straight for the bimax.
how much forward growth did you get
 
SPFromNY914

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In the end 0. All the gains of the FM are EXTREMELY relapsable, unlike an osteotomy where you cut and fix the bone with screws.
Idk I ain't never really heard about anyone relapsing from MSE Facepulling gains BUT then again, the amount of people proven to have gains from it aren't that high. Facepulling varies so much, we gotta take everything with a grain of salt
 
curryslayerordeath

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brooooo they are completely diff things, mse works as a better replacement for the transverse-widening part thats sometimes needed w bimax (segmental leforts n sarpe are inferior procedures) - #6 is wrong in that regard too. cant rly compare things that act on two diff axis.

results from mewing/chewing look better than bimax
there are no "mewing" results lmfao
 
SPFromNY914

SPFromNY914

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brooooo they are completely diff things, mse works as a better replacement for the transverse-widening part thats sometimes needed w bimax (segmental leforts n sarpe are inferior procedures) - #6 is wrong in that regard too. cant rly compare things that act on two diff axis.


there are no "mewing" results lmfao
Bro do you really believe there are No real results based off of mewing even in the slightest?🤦🏽‍♂️
I mean I get a lot of them are overexxagerated but it truly is a long term game come on now
 
ItisOver

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In the end 0. All the gains of the FM are EXTREMELY relapsable, unlike an osteotomy where you cut and fix the bone with screws.
brutal, you think itsgpnna be better since ill do it at 15?
 
Sergio-OMS

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Yeah for sure Doc, but lemme ask you this....
Would you say that a SuperBimax( CCW Lefort 1,BSSO,IMDO,Genio) will have a higher chance of relapse compared to a conventional Bimax? Also, would having CCW on a Bimax affect the chances of relapse or you really can't say? , yk I appreciate all your time regardless if you awsner or not.🖤
Again, it depends on the fixation. With custom titanium there is no relapse or it's insignificant.

A superbimax is not a one surgery treatment. It is broken down in several steps, so risk of relapse is minimal if the right fixation is used.

And with IMDO soft tissues adapt very well and the relapse that happens in adult patients is corrected afterwards during the bimax

I still think that if a palatal expansion is needed it’s better to have MSE as the first step of the treatment instead of doing the expansion with a SARME or with a 2 or 3 piece Le Fort 1.
 
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curryslayerordeath

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Bro do you really believe there are No real results based off of mewing even in the slightest?🤦🏽‍♂️
I mean I get a lot of them are overexxagerated but it truly is a long term game
the "results" (improved hyoid, atrophied buccinators, maybe stronger masseters) occur AFTER fixing your nasal airways, tongue space, lip seal, and occlusal plane, which requires surgery
 
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Again, it depends on the fixation. With custom titanium there is no relapse or it's insignificant.

A superbimax is not a one surgery treatment. It is broken down in several steps, so risk of relapse is minimal if the right fixation is used.

And with IMDO soft tissues adapt very well and the relapse that happens in adult patients is corrected afterwards during the bimax

I still think that if a palatal expansion is needed it’s better to have MSE as the first step of the treatment instead of doing the expansion with a SARME or with a 2 or 3 piece Le Fort 1.
Why does Paul Coceancig still engage in SARPE and not MSE? He even called MSE "budget sarpe". Isn't MSE superior overall in terms of results?
 
Darkstrand

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Again, it depends on the fixation. With custom titanium there is no relapse or it's insignificant.

A superbimax is not a one surgery treatment. It is broken down in several steps, so risk of relapse is minimal if the right fixation is used.

And with IMDO soft tissues adapt very well and the relapse that happens in adult patients is corrected afterwards during the bimax

I still think that if a palatal expansion is needed it’s better to have MSE as the first step of the treatment instead of doing the expansion with a SARME or with a 2 or 3 piece Le Fort 1.
Should I talk about the fixation with my surgeon? Or should I search a new one if he doesn't do fixation with custom titanium?
 
Sergio-OMS

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Should I talk about the fixation with my surgeon? Or should I search a new one if he doesn't do fixation with custom titanium?
Well, the thing about custom titanium is that the engineer follows the surgeon’s directions and the surgeon is responsible for the accuracy of the records and latest responsible for the whole procedure.

A custom design can relapse if plates aren’t thick enough or the number of screws is insufficient. But the stronger the design, the more expensive the surgery. Custom titanium cost can be up to 10 times the cost of standard plates.

I forgot to say that in my previous messages.
 
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In the end 0. All the gains of the FM are EXTREMELY relapsable, unlike an osteotomy where you cut and fix the bone with screws.
The trick is to keep pulling. I have made forward gains with my own facepulling devices on their own with no MSE and have seen some relapse when I stop. I think with using a higher amount of force and making it part of your daily routine you can keep the gains and slowly continue to get forward movement.
 
MentalistKebab

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Show me great before afters in face with MSE.

Cuz everyone here can show insane differences with bimax, but you will probably not be able to find great changes in guys who did expand as much as 10mm.
 
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I literally meant Long term bro as in over many many years. But imo MSDO is a waste of money for anyone. As far as facepulling goes, it's hit or miss but it's still worth the shot imo especially if y'all suppement it and you're under 25
Then again, I'm realizing Bimax relapse is still more common than I thought even in 2020. Imagine all that money,pain, and nerve damage just to relapse smh. Looking back at it, Ronald Eid was correct. It really should be the last resort bruh.
Harsh truth is this: There's no one Path for looksmaxxing or surgerymaxxing, you gotta take everything with a grain of salt and be patient to let shit play out you feel me.
Why do you feel that msdo is a waste of money? How about a narrow jaw with crooked teeth?
 
SPFromNY914

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Why do you feel that msdo is a waste of money? How about a narrow jaw with crooked teeth?
I have a narrow jaw with crooked teeth and I know I don't need MSDO. Here's why
#1. Once the Mandible is moved forward with either BSSO OR IMDO(I haven't decided yet), the lower jaw will be wider.
#2. It's more about the jaw angle and how wide it is rather than how wide the mandible is. A well developed ramus and wide jaw angle is all you need.
#3. Your lower bite can still be adjusted with those 2 surgeries,sfot, or maybe even a lower expander+Invisalign
#4.Building your neck and growing facial hair can make your mandible look significantly bigger.
#5.MSDO Can potentially cause TMJ or make existing TMJ Worse which can be very hard to fix
#6. The cut on MSDO rounds out the mandible shape making it less sharp. If someone goes thru MSDO thinking they can can get barrett level tier lower jaw or just pfl in general, they're delusional. Jaw angle implants are the best bet for this.
 
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MedMaxxing

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Why do you feel that msdo is a waste of money? How about a narrow jaw with crooked teeth?
Because MSDO literally gives a bad result in jaw aesthetics. Look where the cut is. It completely rounds out the mandible in a U shape.
 
Lorsss

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zero references, mewing approval, shit thread
 
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